sky high energy bill! pls help

kevinvis

For my immersion heater, there are two switches. Apparently, one is to switch on the immersion and the other is to control which half of the tank is heated up. I have rang EDF and they said that the night rate starts at around 23.30. I'll try switch on the immersion during that time and switch off in the morning. Thank you,

Kevin

Swipe

kevinvis wrote: »

For my immersion heater, there are two switches. Apparently, one is to switch on the immersion and the other is to control which half of the tank is heated up. I have rang EDF and they said that the night rate starts at around 23.30. I'll try switch on the immersion during that time and switch off in the morning. Thank you,

Kevin

Doesn't it have a timer? If not, ask the landlord to have one fitted

Talldave

kevinvis wrote: »

For my immersion heater, there are two switches. Apparently, one is to switch on the immersion and the other is to control which half of the tank is heated up. I have rang EDF and they said that the night rate starts at around 23.30. I'll try switch on the immersion during that time and switch off in the morning. Thank you,

Kevin

Are you able to post a photo, as there are usually two independently switched elements, rather than an On/Off and top/bottom direction control, as you've described. And depending on the metering/E7 switching arrangement, sometimes one element can only be powered during E7 hours and the other can be powered 24 hours a day.


The main element should be giving you a full tank of scorching hot water from cheap rate E7 electricity. It might be that that element is broken and you're having to use the top-up element to get any hot water at all?

Gerry1

kevinvis wrote: »

For my immersion heater, there are two switches. Apparently, one is to switch on the immersion and the other is to control which half of the tank is heated up. I have rang EDF and they said that the night rate starts at around 23.30. I'll try switch on the immersion during that time and switch off in the morning.

That's probably the exact opposite of what you should do !

The lower heater should be controlled by the meter, so it won't use peak rate from 0030 - 0230. The upper heater should be left switched off at all times. It's only for use in emergency, i.e. if something's gone wrong and the water is cold in the daytime. Switch it on after 2330 and you'll probably hit the peak time at 0030.

As previously stated, you should have called UK Power Networks, not EDF, or you should simply watch the meter change over at the expected times.

If you don't follow the advice, expect more expensive bills !

Talldave wrote: »

The main element should be giving you a full tank of scorching hot water from cheap rate E7 electricity. It might be that that element is broken and you're having to use the top-up element to get any hot water at all?

Sounds quite likely, especially as the OP reports that the water goes cold after a 15 minute shower; he's probably starting with only half a tank of hot water and always paying peak rate for it. A double whammy !

This should be checked by leaving the Boost switch off. If the water then isn't hot every morning then it's likely that the main heater isn't working.

kevinvis

There is no timer for the immersion unfortunately. The system doesnt allow me to post an image so i'll try me best to explain it. There are two switches; one says either bath or sink and the other one is on/off switch. Apparently, the landlord said that bath means full tank and sink means half a tank. I rang the UK Power Network and they told me that I have to check with my provider
So I should keep the switch to half a tank at night? The landlord has been less than helpful in trying to sort this out or give me any information in relation to the system in the flat. Thank you everyone for trying to help

Kevin

Talldave

OK, that does sound familiar. If you're switching it on overnight (on E7 rate), then the bath setting will give you a full tank of hot water which should get you through the day. If you only use the sink setting overnight and have to turn it on again during the day, then you're using expensive day rate electricity to heat the water - hence a full tank at night rate may be more economic.


This is assuming that it's wired to a 24 hour feed and not to an E7 only circuit.


But having to switch the hot water heating on and off every night is crazy. You really need it on a timeswitch that heats the water at the last possible moment of cheap E7 night rate (eg: 04:30 to 06:30).


Timeswitches designed for immersion heaters will also have a boost button that'll give you a 1 or 2hr boost if you've used up the full tank of hot water.


If the bath setting isn't giving you a full tank of hot water, it probably means the element has burnt out. Whilst getting someone in to fix it, a few quid extra would get the time control sorted as well.

Talldave

It sounds as if the installation has one of these type switches:


https://www.mkelectric.com/en-gb/Products/WD/logicplus/dualswitch/20AMPflush/Pages/K5207WHI.aspx


Surely it must then be on a 24 hour feed, otherwise there would be no way to heat water during the day?


kevinvis, can you see how many wires are coming out of the meter?

Gerry1

kevinvis wrote: »

There is no timer for the immersion unfortunately.

How do you know? It shouldn't need a timer next to it. With a proper E7 installation the meter provides the timing function and you can't change it.

kevinvis wrote: »

Apparently, the landlord said that bath means full tank and sink means half a tank.

Yes, you may get a half tank or a full tank, but that totally misses the point if the half tank costs the same as the full tank and hence doubles the cost. You'll just have to do your own investigation, but it's not difficult.

kevinvis wrote: »

I rang the UK Power Network and they told me that I have to check with my provider

I'm very surprised to hear that. Did you really speak to a real person, give them your address and ask what are your Economy 7 switching times? :huh: You can't expect EDF to know: E7 times vary according to the local distributor, which is why you need to ask yours, i.e. UK Power Networks. The peak rate from 0030 - 0230 GMT can mess up your finances if you aren't aware of it.

kevinvis wrote: »

So I should keep the switch to half a tank at night?

No, No, No, No, No, NO ! ... unless it's a naked copper tank that has no insulation and the lower heater is on a 24-hour supply. If so, buy an insulating jacket and ask the landlord to get the wiring fixed.

kevinvis

My switches is similar to the one Talldave inserted in the link. The is no light above the bath/sink switch. I have turned off the immersion switch earlier today, the pipe leading up to the boiler is still warm, could this indicate something? There are 2 wires coming out of the tank, wired into the wall. I have read somewhere that the thermostat could be under the plastic cover on the tank(?) if it is, then there are two. I think the landlord was right in saying the bath means full tank as I was able to have longer shower when I switched it to bath. I will try ring the Power Network again tomorrow to double check. I will try look into the manual again to see how the system is set up hopefully will find something. Thank you once again,

Kevin

Gerry1

Talldave wrote: »

It sounds as if the installation has one of these type switches:

https://www.mkelectric.com/en-gb/Products/WD/logicplus/dualswitch/20AMPflush/Pages/K5207WHI.aspx

Surely it must then be on a 24 hour feed, otherwise there would be no way to heat water during the day?

Sounds like it's a horrible installation, the landlord being too mean to pay for a proper contactor switched by the meter. It saves the landlord a few bob but lumbers the tenants with unnecessarily high bills unless they keep switching the immersion heater on at night and off in the morning. Only anoraks will understand this, let alone remember to keep doing it...

Bearing in mind the short tenancy, the most realistic option for the OP is to set the switch to 'Bath' and switch it to 'On' as soon as he sees that the cheap night rate has kicked in. He should then set it to 'Off' after getting up in the morning.

Ideally he should get UK Power Networks to confirm that the meter is giving seven continuous hours at the cheap rate, i.e. no two-hour gap in the middle, otherwise the lower immersion may still be heating the whole tank when the price doubles after only two hours. If it is the 'split shift' timing, he could ask for it to be changed it if it would be free of charge.

If there's a Radio Teleswitch, it's cheap rate when the red lever (under '80A' is down).



The meter itself may also show when it's registering at the lower night rate.