Santander faster payment failure - opinions please

Rhino666

Hi

I recently called Santander to arrange a large payment to a fixed rate investment at another bank.
I am required to go though a security process where Santander call back to check details and security. The payment was debited from my account at 9.30 am. As it was a faster payment I expected it to appear in the destination account quickly but got a bit worried when there was no sign of it 24 hours after the payment. When I called the destination bank they could not find my money which caused some panic. Luckily I was called back by the destination bank a few hours later in the day to say that my money had arrived more than a day late.
It seems that Santander debited my account and then recredited the money to my account the next day before debiting again a short while later to make the faster payment. I complained because there was no communication, interest was lost and most of all because for a while I thought my money had disappeared.
Santander are not entertaining my complaint and are sticking to the story that the delay was to protect my interests and security. I'm not happy at all with this but the only option left is a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.
What do you think?

Ed-1

Rhino666 wrote: »

Hi

I recently called Santander to arrange a large payment to a fixed rate investment at another bank.
I am required to go though a security process where Santander call back to check details and security. The payment was debited from my account at 9.30 am. As it was a faster payment I expected it to appear in the destination account quickly but got a bit worried when there was no sign of it 24 hours after the payment. When I called the destination bank they could not find my money which caused some panic. Luckily I was called back by the destination bank a few hours later in the day to say that my money had arrived more than a day late.
It seems that Santander debited my account and then recredited the money to my account the next day before debiting again a short while later to make the faster payment. I complained because there was no communication, interest was lost and most of all because for a while I thought my money had disappeared.
Santander are not entertaining my complaint and are sticking to the story that the delay was to protect my interests and security. I'm not happy at all with this but the only option left is a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.
What do you think?

Santander are 100% correct. The rules say that faster payments will arrive by the end of the next business day after the business day which they were sent. So faster payments (although many will arrive instantly) can take up to the end of the next working day. This is to allow any necessary bank checks to protect both you (e.g. if it might be a scam or someone other than you trying to make the payment) and the bank (e.g. if you are trying to launder the money). Large payments will be subject to more stringent checks and therefore take longer.

colsten

In addition to what Ed-1 said: how much more would you have made in interest if Santander had sent the money 24 hours earlier than they did?

Let's assume you sent £85,000 (let's ignore that you would not keep £85k in Santander unless you couldn't care about losing money to inflation). Let's further generously assume that you sent the money to top-rate 5-year fixed term bond, paying 2.1%. One day's interest in such an account would be £4.89, although you would have to pay at least 20% tax on this as the interest exceeds the annual basic rate savings allowance. So at the very best, your 'loss' is less than £4. Most likely it's an awful lot less because you almost certainly transferred an awful lot less than £85k.

But let's work with the £4 'loss'. Given that your money arrived before the end of the next business day, i.e. in accordance with the legal limits, are you really going to kick up a stink for less than £4, to which you had no guarantee, or rights, to start with?

SnowTiger

Rhino666 wrote: »

Hi

I recently called Santander to arrange a large payment to a fixed rate investment at another bank.
I am required to go though a security process where Santander call back to check details and security. The payment was debited from my account at 9.30 am. As it was a faster payment I expected it to appear in the destination account quickly but got a bit worried when there was no sign of it 24 hours after the payment. When I called the destination bank they could not find my money which caused some panic. Luckily I was called back by the destination bank a few hours later in the day to say that my money had arrived more than a day late.
It seems that Santander debited my account and then recredited the money to my account the next day before debiting again a short while later to make the faster payment. I complained because there was no communication, interest was lost and most of all because for a while I thought my money had disappeared.
Santander are not entertaining my complaint and are sticking to the story that the delay was to protect my interests and security. I'm not happy at all with this but the only option left is a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.
What do you think?

http://www.fasterpayments.org.uk/how-long-do-faster-payments-take:

Provided the sending and receiving bank/building society are Direct Participants of Faster Payments, payments are usually available almost immediately, although they can sometimes take up to two hours.

These timescales can still apply if either the sending or receiving bank is not a Direct Participant of Faster Payments.

Some payments will take longer, especially outside normal working hours.

You should talk to your bank/building society if the speed of the payment is particularly important.

As a minimum, all financial institutions in the UK must abide by the Payment Services Directive (PSD) - this states that any payments made by mobile, internet or phone banking (including standing orders) must arrive by the end of the following business day at the latest.

Rhino666

Thank you for your replies; Similar from Santander.

I have sent many faster payments over the years, most through Santander. The majority are aurhorised automatically through payment instruction but a substantial number have required phone call authorisation as with this payment. All, where it can be verified have arrived at their destination very quickly once debited from my account. This was a critical payment so organised very early in the day to avoid issue. The money was taken from my account and I was told and agreed in a recorded conversation that the money was irrecoverable once debited. The money was debited and there was no further contact of any sort from Santander. If there were some unforeseen security issue subsequent to all the checks done and account debit, there should have been communication. It seems obvious to me that a mistake was made at Santander and I paid the price. Interest is clearly not the main issue although Santander insist that they recredited my account the next working day before immediately debiting to save me interest. I suggest that a debit on the first day with no credit would mean a days interest lost. The main issue as stated was my missing money. No sign of it at Santander and the destination bank initially blamed when it was not there either. This caused me genuine concern and stress.

Santander's and quite possibly general banking terms and conditions appear to cover this situation entirely but clearly the terms and conditions are not reasonable. Santander claim that this is for my protection but in practice I suggest that Santander are protecting themselves as they would inevitably have to repay the money if there were genuine issue.

Unfortunately this does not sit well for me for several reasons. Given another recent problem with Santander and the imminent 123 account interest rate drop I will make the escalated complaint and probably transfer my accounts elsewhere.

colsten

Rhino666 wrote: »

Santander's and quite possibly general banking terms and conditions appear to cover this situation entirely but clearly the terms and conditions are not reasonable.

it strikes me that it is not Santander who are unreasonable in your dispute with them

Rhino666 wrote: »

Given another recent problem with Santander and the imminent 123 account interest rate drop I will make the escalated complaint and probably transfer my accounts elsewhere.

I was going to suggest you vote with your feet and move your accounts. Santander won't stand in your way, you can do it straight away. Be prepared for the exact same rules at other banks though.

societys_child

This was a critical payment so organised very early in the day to avoid issue

No matter how critical it may have been to you, they still have until the end of the next working day.

molerat

If the payment was "critical" then you used the wrong service, that is what CHAPS is for.

EssexExile

It's the internet age, people get used to things happening quickly. Oh for the good old days of getting a bank statement once every 6 months, allowing 21 days for delivery of things ordered by post, etc.
On the other hand when you phoned someone they answered immediately, now you have to wait in a queue. Bloomin' progress.

Rhino666

EssexExile wrote: »

It's the internet age, people get used to things happening quickly. Oh for the good old days of getting a bank statement once every 6 months, allowing 21 days for delivery of things ordered by post, etc.
On the other hand when you phoned someone they answered immediately, now you have to wait in a queue. Bloomin' progress.

Yes, i remember those days as worked for the Natwest for a while back in the 80's
BACS used to take 3 days, clearance of cheques whenever and quill pens on the till:-)

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.santander.co.uk
indicates that Santander are about as popular as I am on this thread..

Look forward to a reply from the senior posters who have given their clear opinion. Where was my money for over 24 hours and what possible reason can there be for the payment delay once my account had been debited after all security checks passed?

born_again

Who was the payment too? As if they are not in the FP scheme, or they use a 3rd party to process the funds. As has been said can delay things.
Or as it was for a investment acc. They might have to be manually processed to the account. So it will hit a internal account and then be picked up and processed to your account.
Ever paid into this account before by FP?
09:30 when? can make a difference.. Also been a couple of issues this week with various banks and FP's.

You not unpopular