Get deposit back, landlord illegally subletting + claim tenancy deposit compensation

dan201

Hello guys,

Here is my situation, I truly hope you can help me with it:

- I rented last year a bedroom in a 2-bed apartment from someone (let's call him "T") and paid him a deposit on move in (£800).
- "T" was originally a tenant of the flat along with "U" who was his roommate. Then "T" sublet his room to me, therefore I lived with "U" throughout my tenancy, we shared kitchen and bathroom. "T" did NOT live with me during the tenancy.
- I have signed an AST with "T" when I moved in (although on the contract he did not sign anything as a landlord, his name is only mentioned as Lead Tenant, the other person that signed with me was my former roommate "U").
- It is only when I moved out of the flat and asked to get my deposit back that I discovered that my Deposit Certificate was actually a FAKE one (copied from the certificate between "T" and the lead landlord of the flat). But here he is referred to as the landlord and I as lead tenant.
- I discovered later during the tenancy that it was actually an illegal sublet. The AST agreement that "T" used with me was probably a copy of the one he signed as a tenant along with U, with the lead landlord, with my name instead of his on the agreement.
- Now this "T" is refusing to pay back my deposit, he has blocked me on social media and doesn't answer any of my messages anymore.

Now I have 2 questions:
- I am entitled to go to Small Claims Court and ask for my £800 deposit back + interests? What are the costs of that? I've heard you can make the defendant pay for your fees if you win.
- More importantly, am I entitled, on top of the Small Claims Court, to make a tenancy deposit compensation claim, and ask for up to 3 times the deposit amount, since he did NOT protect my deposit? Is that claim legit even if I signed an AST for a sublet that was illegal?
The other way to put that last question is:
- Did "T" have to protect my deposit even if the sublet was illegal and I was only renting a bedroom, not the whole apartment? (I remind here that he was NOT living there with me, hence I was not considered a lodger)
- As per "T"'s AST with the lead landlord, was he not living there from a legal standpoint? Because he still paid his part of the rent on a monthly basis to the lead landlord, which would make my claim invalid?

I'm really lost here I don't know what to do. Thanks in advance for your help.
Cheers,
Dan

G_M

dan201 wrote: »

- I rented last year a bedroom in a 2-bed apartment from someone (let's call him "T") and paid him a deposit on move in (£800).
- "T" was originally a tenant of the flat along with "U" who was his roommate. Then "T" sublet his room to me, therefore I lived with "U" throughout my tenancy, we shared kitchen and bathroom. "T" did NOT live with me during the tenancy.
So T & U were joint tenants?
Unclear. T & U were room mates. So you moved into the 2nd bedroom.

When T moved out, how come you were in T's room? Did U move into your old room?
Who did you pay rent to? T or U?

- I have signed an AST with "T" when I moved in (although on the contract he did not sign anything as a landlord, his name is only mentioned as Lead Tenant, the other person that signed with me was my former roommate "U").
Who is named as 'the landlord'? Who did you pay rent to? Did you pay a deposit? Whose name was on the receipt?

- It is only when I moved out of the flat and asked to get my deposit back that I discovered that my Deposit Certificate was actually a FAKE one (copied from the certificate between "T" and the lead landlord of the flat). But here he is referred to as the landlord and I as lead tenant.
So on the 'fake' certificate, T is the Landlord?

- I discovered later during the tenancy that it was actually an illegal sublet. irrelevant. (and unlikely to be 'illegal'.

The AST agreement that "T" used with me was probably a copy of the one he signed as a tenant along with U, with the lead landlord, with my name instead of his on the agreement. So he created a new tenancy agreement based on his own but with new names. Nothing wrong with that.

- Now this "T" is refusing to pay back my deposit, he has blocked me on social media and doesn't answer any of my messages anymore.
'social media'? :rotfl:

Where is he living? Write to him!

Now I have 2 questions:
- I am entitled to go to Small Claims Court and ask for my £800 deposit back + interests? Yes, providing you have evidence of paying it.

What are the costs of that? I've heard you can make the defendant pay for your fees if you win. Correct. See moneyclaim online.

- More importantly, am I entitled, on top of the Small Claims Court, to make a tenancy deposit compensation claim, and ask for up to 3 times the deposit amount, since he did NOT protect my deposit?
Yes, provided you were a tenant and not a lodger (sharing with your landlord) which is somewhat unclear.

Is that claim legit even if I signed an AST for a sublet that was illegal? Irrelevant

The other way to put that last question is:
- Did "T" have to protect my deposit even if the sublet was illegal Yes if you were a tenant and I was only renting a bedroom, not the whole apartment? (I remind here that he was NOT living there with me, hence I was not considered a lodger) As above
- As per "T"'s AST with the lead landlord, was he not living there from a legal standpoint? Because he still paid his part of the rent on a monthly basis to the lead landlord, which would make my claim invalid? No. Nothing illegal in sub letting. What matters is whether he was living there with you

The process for claiming the deposit penalty is :

* Deposits: payment, protection and return


* Shelter: How to make a deposit compensation claim

dan201

Thank you very much for your reply.
- T & U were indeed officially joint tenants on the "real" agreement with the lead landlord.
- I only paid my rent to "T", who went to live abroad. I basically replaced him in his bedroom. U stayed there all along in the other bedroom but had nothing to do with my rent / deposit / tenancy, he was an original joint tenant with T.
- On the Fake Certificate, T is listed as landlord and I am listed as Lead Tenant
- On the AST, I co-signed a joint tenancy with U, where T was only mentioned as Lead Tenant but nowhere else (I know, weird. This is what leads me to believe this is a copy/forgery of the "real" joint tenancy between "T", "U" and the lead landlord). The landlord listed is the actual lead landlord of the flat (but this I only found out later).
- I do not know where "T" lives now, and I honestly don't know how to find out. I still have his phone number though.

- As an evidence of paying the deposit I have that fake certificate (signed by both of us), along with a bank statement.
- That subletting was illegal from his side in the contract that he signed with the real landlord (he actually got evicted for it), but you're saying that it doesn't make my claim for non-protection of deposit invalid? That's great.
- I was indeed a tenant as he was my landlord, and he lived abroad during my tenancy. I only lived with U, even though T still paid rent to the lead landlord of the flat.

And thanks for those links.

steampowered

Do you have T's address? If so, the process for recovering your deposit is straightforward.

You write a simple 'letter before action' requiring repayment of the deposit within 14 days. If he doesn't pay, then you issue a claim through the moneyclaimonline service - it's very easy to do.

You could seek an additional penalty for failing to protect the deposit. However, the court process for seeking a penalty is more complicated as it can't (or at least shouldn't) be done through the small claims process - you need to use the Part 8 process, as set out on Shelter's website, which involves physically sending paper forms to court and higher court fees. Whereas simply claiming return of the £800 deposit + interest can be done easily online through the small claims process.

dan201

I understand, the only thing is I do not have his address. How important is it to send a Letter before action when going to court? Can't it be done by email / text message?

G_M

If you don't know where he lives, and he is abroad, you are wasting your time in practical terms, irrespective of the legal rights or process.

steampowered

You need an address to issue court proceedings in almost all scenarios. Practically you also need an address as somewhere to send the bailiffs if the Defendant doesn't pay.

You could try using a tracing agent to try and find an address. Running a basic trace might set you back £30 or so.

If you still can't find an address, the legal process gets significantly more complicated, you would need to:

- Apply to the court for permission to serve legal proceedings through social media or some other non-physical address.
- If successful, serve legal proceedings.
- Obtain a CCJ if the Defendant fails to file a defence.
- If the Defendant fails to pay, enforce the CCJ against the Defendant's bank account (assuming the account has any money in it).

The cost of all that would be several hundred quid in court fees and a lot of time taken, unlikely to be worth it to recover £800.

dan201

I believe he does not live abroad anymore, only when he was subletting the room to me.
Does someone maybe know a good tracing agent that I could use? What about using tenant-compensation.co.uk which is a website that helps you (no-win no-fee) to get your deposit back?

dan201

Could I possibly use my former address where we both used to live for the Letter Before action? Since he has no plan to settle this before court anyway. I know through my former roommate that he stills receives mail there and goes to pick it up on a regular basis.

dan201

So I found this website tenant-compensation.co.uk which is a website that helps you (no-win no-fee) to get your deposit back. Anyone has any opinion on it? Would it be good and easy to use in my case?

G_M

dan201 wrote: »

So I found this website tenant-compensation.co.uk which is a website that helps you (no-win no-fee) to get your deposit back. Anyone has any opinion on it? Would it be good and easy to use in my case?

All that company appears to do is take you through the process of claiming the penalty. But it assumes you can tell them who & where the landlord is. And if you know that, you don't need them, so why share the penalty awarded to you with them?


It's like companies that 'help' you claim PPI miss-selling. Money down the drain!