Can I be forced to have a smart meter?

mmmmikey

Saighdeoir said:

Thanks for the replies. As I can't seem to respond to individual replies I will add that the text of the letter says 'upgrading our communal electricity meters...' 'in your property' which is kind of a contradiction in terms and somewhat confusing.

As Netex above says which I think that is correct regarding this work. There will be communal meters for the reasons they give. But by virtue of it being 'communal' 'in your property' seems incorrect. The shared space is the reason for the 'management' role but I will confirm this and the state of our meter now before commenting further.

As some have also stated and indeed I have seen on this website the individual supply is between the supplier and the receiver. Therefore anything that affects the providing of that will affect the service user and so is very much the consumers business.

This is a new build property - less than 10 years old so there should be no reason for any change being necessary at this stage in terms of 'wear and tear'. I'm sure the management would never want to do this because there maybe a financial incentive either...

Hi - as I understand it from your posts there are two commercial relationships (governed by contracts) involved here. Whoever gets the invoice (presumably a management company) and pays the bill for the smart meter in question has a contract with the energy supplier. Then there is a relationship between you, the ultimate user of the communal service and the management company which will be governed by your contract with them. From your perspective, it's that second contract between you and the management compnay that matters. 

As long as the management company is delivering what was agreed in the contract then whatever your personal views on smart meters are you have no cause for complaint. If, on the other hand, there is something in your contract with the management company that requires them to seek your personal approval before changing the meter and/or energy supplier than you do have a cause for complaint. Having said that:

(a) It is highly unlikely that the contract would require the management compnay to consult with and get the unanimous agreement of all the leaseholders before changing the supplier and/or meter

(b) Even if they are in breach of contract (which seems highly unlikely) and you wanted to sue them for damages, then you would have to detail what those damages are. It is unlikely that there are any actual damages that the courts would recognise, and if anything the change may well be beneficial rather than detrimental.

Bottom line here is that however strongly held your views are about smart meters you would likely be wasting your time if you were to pursue this as a complaint or through the courts.

Saighdeoir

mmmmikey said:

Hi - as I understand it from your posts there are two commercial relationships (governed by contracts) involved here.

Thanks for the response.

I'm not sure your reading of the posts is correct and atm I am waiting for clarification on what has happened as the letter received was confusing.

It referenced the upgrading of the 'communal meters' which indicate a shared resource possible of which the management use and pay for to manage the common areas i.e. hoovering stairs, maintaining common areas etc. as opposed to individual meters that are aligned with each property.

One will be charged as part of the service charge we all pay and one will be charge individually to each consumer. The service charge is one of which we have no control over in terms of what we are charged - the contract is that we agree to pay for the managements use as they see fit.

The other is the normal consumer charge we all pay for individual use.

As the letter says 'in your property' it is kind of counter intuitive to the 'communal' aspect so we are waiting for the mgmt co to clarify what has happened.

Despite the response of some posters I am ambiguous towards smart meters at this stage as there appear much conflicting info. But I am not inclined to share the views of some they these are being rolled out 'for the benefits' of consumers. I would tend to see it as new charging mechanism meaning cheaper rates and premium rates and something to offset use.

However the issue was more to do with the fact that this was being imposed without consultation and from the letter was going to directly affect us by virtue of being 'in (y)our property'. That doesn't seem reasonable nor that the letter was received on the day the work was due to be carried out and offered no consultation if it was indeed going to be 'in your property'.

 Once I have clarification I will update further. Thanks again.

BarelySentientAI

Saighdeoir said:

However the issue was more to do with the fact that this was being imposed without consultation and from the letter was going to directly affect us by virtue of being 'in (y)our property'. That doesn't seem reasonable nor that the letter was received on the day the work was due to be carried out and offered no consultation if it was indeed going to be 'in your property'.

Is your meter the meter supplying your property actually in your property, or is it in a cupboard on the landlords property?

Zandoni

wild666 said:

A supplier can, I think, change the meters at any time they like as they own them.

A supplier can't just show up at your house and change the meters, they have to notify you and arrange a mutually agreeable date.

BarelySentientAI

Zandoni said:

wild666 said:

A supplier can, I think, change the meters at any time they like as they own them.

A supplier can't just show up at your house and change the meters without a court warrant, they have to notify you and arrange a mutually agreeable date.

But yes, you're right.

Saighdeoir

To clarify - currently we are waiting for a reply of just what has been done.

That is because of the confusion in the letter which states work done to 'communal meters' as the definition is unclear. As is the comment that the work is being done 'in your property' which would indicate within the flat itself. This is doubly confusing as the meters are external so whether that pertains to 'communal' is unclear.

There is a source for electricity which the management access for communal work. It is this that may be the subject of the 'upgrade' although I would imagine its all of the individual ones as well.

Because individual apartment meters are also external to the properties means they come within the managements domain to change despite the confusing 'within your property' statement. 

That is what I believe has been happened and so because they are external we are not able to challenge this if we wanted. As the electric consumers however it may be possible that we can insist that the meter is set to dumb mode but the management company have made a decision that may affect how we consume our future electric needs. It may be correct that that decision rests with the management company but the reason for this post is to clarify what rights as consumers we have in the present situation.

Once we have that clarification I will post the response from the management company. Thanks for all responders.

Saighdeoir

As an update we had confirmation today from the management company that it was only the 'communal meters' not those that regulate the individual properties that have moved to smart meters. 

The individual apartments they will remain on the same meters they did previously. 

Again thanks to all those who contributed to this thread, much appreciated!

Grrrlracer

I am on Economy 7 at the moment but want to change to a single rate as I no longer have storage heating. I was with British Gas. They said they would only change the meter for a smart meter and refused to do a dumb down. I changed to UW as the sales guy said they would be willing to instal a dumbed down meter. They have subsequentially said that they can only supply a fully functioning smart meter as the "regulations" don't allow them to do otherwise
Has anyone been able to RECENTLY get an energy company to do anything other than a replacement smart meter?

BarelySentientAI

Grrrlracer said:

I am on Economy 7 at the moment but want to change to a single rate as I no longer have storage heating. I was with British Gas. They said they would only change the meter for a smart meter and refused to do a dumb down. I changed to UW as the sales guy said they would be willing to instal a dumbed down meter. They have subsequentially said that they can only supply a fully functioning smart meter as the "regulations" don't allow them to do otherwise
Has anyone been able to RECENTLY get an energy company to do anything other than a replacement smart meter?

There is no such thing as a dumbed down meter - there's only a smart meter that has communication problems.

If you get a new meter, it will be a smart meter.

Why don't you just change to a single rate and stay on the same meter if you're so against the norm?

MP1995

Grrrlracer said:

I am on Economy 7 at the moment but want to change to a single rate as I no longer have storage heating. I was with British Gas. They said they would only change the meter for a smart meter and refused to do a dumb down. I changed to UW as the sales guy said they would be willing to instal a dumbed down meter. They have subsequentially said that they can only supply a fully functioning smart meter as the "regulations" don't allow them to do otherwise
Has anyone been able to RECENTLY get an energy company to do anything other than a replacement smart meter?

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/can-i-be-forced-to-have-a-smart-meter/

If they refuse(to put it in dumb mode)then just raise a complaint then after 8 weeks or a deadlock letter escalate it to the ombudsman.

Let us know how you get on.