PIP complex budgeting decisions

Hannah2610

_shel wrote: »

Mines temporal lobe too, had surgery to remove part of the scar tissue. Which worked well but not good enough, still changed my life.

You really should've told them about each diagnosis.

Amazing, maximum respect to anyone who is brave enough to have brain surgery!
I am not brave enough just yet. Temporal lobe, you have to be brave. But surgery is another level of warrior.
I am disappointed in myself, I know I lack motivation, but I should of asked for help as opposed to filling it out myself. I really hope I stated some of the issues i face beyond the epilepsy, the worst part? I can't remember what I put in my claim form x

Hannah2610

I have just read through the assesment, they have mentioned previous issues I have faced with regards to medical history, and decided to award me 2 points for engaging with other people, this isn't standard for epilepsy, so they have picked up on other issues or I have told them myself. And it also says...you mentioned you have issues with complex budgeting decisions, I have decided you have adequate memory and do not need help with complex budgeting decisions.
I have highlighted every time it mentions memory on the report and written on the page, this contradicts my diagnosis. An included letters I didn't before, all based on "significant memory and emotional issues." For mandatory reconsideration.
I don't think it's fair to question my memory based on..., can you subtract so much from a pound and know the answer?! I was also asked to remember 3 items, when asked the 3 items at the end of assesment, I had no idea what she was talking about. Luckily my partner was with me, I don't actually remember the assesment and what was said, only snippets of it x

Alice_Holt

Hannah,
You need to appeal this decision.

From what you have described I would have anticipated an award of enhanced for both. There is recenti case law (2017) about uncontrolled fits and seizures which is very important in your case.
The assessor should have taken into account the severity of the risk (particularly (if I understand correctly) as you say you have no warning and cannot get yourself in a safe place). This risk over-rides the usual PIP rules of looking at the majority of the time. This being the case, you should have scored more points for cooking and bathing safely. And given a mobility award (per shel's mobility award & post). Some info on this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-changes/safety-and-supervision-changes-to-pip-law-from-9-march-2017

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/3611-safety-and-supervison-ruling-could-mean-pip-for-many-more-claimants

https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/daily-life/benefits/personal-independence-payments-pip

https://www.epilepsysociety.org.uk/how-fill-your-pip-form#.XidDb_KTKzw

This is how you should approach your MR / appeal - on the severity of the risk (given the uncontrolled nature of your condition).

Please do see if your local Citizens Advice / advice agency has a caseworker who can help you with your appeal.

You should argue for the need for supervision when cooking and bathing on the MR, Include medical evidence to show the condition is uncontrolled, and examples of potential harm, together with letters from family members (if they keep an eye on you).

TBH budgeting may well apply, but is not straightforward to argue on epilepsy (no risk attached - so the majority of days guidelines apply), you should argue this more on your depression. But, it's a bit of the side issue - the major error is the DWP decision maker not correctly reflecting the 2017 case law on severity of risk.

I'm not clear on the chronology. You mentioned a previous award which gave 4 points for cooking. Could you set down clearly the history of your PIP awards, please.
I.e was the recent refused award a renewal?
What award did you have previously?
Did you give details of depression and poor mental health on this (or previous forms)?

I will then come back with some more info / suggestions for you.

PS. The 2 points for social engagement seems to show that your depression was noted.

Hannah2610

Alice_Holt wrote: »

Hannah,
You need to appeal this decision.

From what you have described I would have anticipated an award of enhanced for both. There is recenti case law (2017) about uncontrolled fits and seizures which is very important in your case.
The assessor should have taken into account the severity of the risk (particularly (if I understand correctly) as you say you have no warning and cannot get yourself in a safe place). This risk over-rides the usual PIP rules of looking at the majority of the time. This being the case, you should have scored more points for cooking and bathing safely. And given a mobility award (per shel's mobility award)


This is how you should approach your MR / appeal - on the severity of the risk (given the uncontrolled nature of your condition).

Please do see if your local Citizens Advice / advice agency has a caseworker who can help you with your appeal.

You should argue for the need for supervision when cooking and bathing on the MR, Include medical evidence to show the condition is uncontrolled, and examples of potential harm, together with letters from family members (if they keep an eye on you).

TBH budgeting may well apply, but is not straightforward to argue on epilepsy (no risk attached - so the majority of days guidelines apply), you should argue this more on your depression. But, it's a bit of the side issue - the major error is the DWP decision maker not correctly reflecting the 2017 case law on severity of risk.

I'm not clear on the chronology. You mentioned a previous award which gave 4 points for cooking. Could you set down clearly the history of your PIP awards, please.
I.e was the recent refused award a renewal?
What award did you have previously?
Did you give details of depression and poor mental health on this (or previous forms)?

I will then come back with some more info / suggestions for you.

PS. The 2 points for social engagement seems to show that your depression was noted. Can you list the points you did score, thanks.

What an amazing woman you are! Thank you
I was previously given 4 points for cooking and nothing else. I expected to get nothing as the descriptors didn't apply to me, I am not effected 50% of the time. When I got the 4 points for cooking, I decided to appeal as it didn't make sense, I'm always unsafe, not just when cooking.
Before i reached my tribunal, the law changed with regards to safety and supervision.
I literally walked in the room, the tribunal asked the lady from DWP if she would like to say anything, she brought up the changes and I was awarded standard care and higher mobility.
I believe 4 for cooking, 2 for bathing, and 2 for mixing face to face and 2 for budgeting.

As opposed to a renewal, I had to reapply altogether when the first award ended.

Although I have partials, it does state clearly that they are overwhelming and "stroke like".
So I cannot make myself "safe".
Also, my seizures are prolonged, and I never have just one. If someone has a seizure they often say to time it before calling an ambulance, 5 minutes. My seizures average at around 10 minutes, and they happen in clusters, so if i have a generalised, I'm pretty much guaranteed to have another shortly after, and then another....
We were told to call an ambulance as soon as the seizure starts. Also..., I have post ictal psychosis. I am aggressive and a little psychotic when I come round, so I'm not only a danger to myself. I was told to ask others to keep a safe distance away so I couldn't attack them when I came round.

This time round...
I think they felt, she can use a microwave, but she cannot cook as it is unsafe, 2 points.
I got 2 points for bathing.
2 points for engaging with others
1 point for managing a medical condition, ie, remembering to take tablets.
And 12 points for mobility.
So I am not safe at all outside the house, but inside unless I'm bathing or cooking I'm just fine.
Where do they draw the line? Its slightly devastating.

I have gone onto emergency medication, so the medication I used to take for emergencies, I now have to take every day. This is since applying for PIP again. My condition is deteriorating, I am a lot less safe now than when I first applied.

The points for managing a health condition I believe are based on memory, my ability to remember to take my pills. But my memory is fine according to the assesor, just not at taking medication I take every day to keep me alive? If there is one thing I should remember to do, an I don't.
I felt with the depression and anxiety, they must know? Because this hasn't been questioned, only memory.
The safety aspect is shocking.

Thank you so much for your time, I really appreciate this help!x

Alice_Holt

Thanks Hannah,

The fact that a tribunal awarded you a Daily Living award (which the DWP have now withdrawn) will make it easier.
I would include a copy of that tribunal decision notice with your MR, explain that your condition has not changed.
With the combination of seizure risks, the severe impact of your seizures, recovery periods (and the help you need during these periods), plus the effects of your depression - I would (if doing your MR) be aiming for an enhanced DL award. Including:
4 points for cooking (supervision due to risk);
4 for bathing (supervision);
2 for social engagement (per the TS decision) - Due to depression;
2 for help with budgeting (TS decision) - Due to depression.

Plus I might look at if points should be awarded for prompting to dress (depression).
The guide poppy posted is very useful, so look through that with family members to see what applies to you,

Some more useful resources:
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system

https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal

https://www.advicenow.org.uk/pip-tool

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/mandatory-reconsideration/

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/challenge-a-decision-made-by-the-department-for-work-and-pensions-dwp

Remember time limits - MR should be in one month of the decision letter (but you can have a late request).
Sadly, the DWP often don't get the decision right even at that stage. So do expect to go to tribunal (as poppy said).
Be aware that by challenging the decision, the whole of your award will be looked at (see the Cit A adviceguide), but this is (IMO) a very, very small risk in your case.

I do think the decision not to continue your DL award is wrong, and you should appeal it.

Good luck.

Hannah2610

Alice, thank you so much. I am about to rewrite my mandatory reconsideration again, after reading your last post. Thank you!xxx