Vehicle Control Services PCN in a residential car park

MoneySavingPest

Hi All,

In November 2019, the driver of my car received a windscreen "Privacy Notice" while parking in a private residential car park. The driver was a legitimate visitor to an actual resident, but failed to display a visitor permit. The reason for the visit was the resident was suffering a serious medical episode at the time, and in the rather fraught atmosphere the resident forgot about the visitor permit.

I as registered keeper received a postal NTK from Vehicle Control Services within 14 days. I appealed to VCS using the standard text, got the standard rejection, and have not further appealed to IAS.

I've made the decision to fight this one to the death, so suspect I am heading to a County Court hearing at some point (I have now received the letter saying all appeal routes have expired and they have now handed over the increased £160 debt to debt collection)

Some questions:

1. Can medical causes result in a frustration of contract in this situation? Does anyone know any case law on this point?

2. I wrote a strong letter of complaint to the landowner's agent, but they have not been helpful, more or less saying it is between me and the parking company (at one point, they even advised me to pay the parking ticket and then appeal to the parking company afterwards!). Anybody got any tips for making them think again (at the moment I think they are in cahoots with VCS).

3. I could complain to the DVLA. Not sure what the grounds would be - without a visitor permit displayed they probably are within their rights to get keeper details? Or is it best to win in the County Court first, then complain to the DVLA, as that would strengthen the complaint?

This forum is really helpful - I've more or less dealt with another PCN at a railway station car park using advice on this forum, but this VCS one feels more difficult to get rid of!

Redx

3) win in court first

Method_EU

These VCS pests 'operate' in my residential area too. What does your Tenancy Agreement state, in regards to parking? Is there anything stating that you must display a permit?

Don't pay a thing to them, they'll continue harassing you with demanding letters for payment. Appeals will also fall on deaf ears too.

The_Deep

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Read this,[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]what does the tenant's lease/AST say about parking? Does it mention the need to display a permit? If not then it may take primacy over the self serving TnC of the scammer, and interfere with his/her lawful right to “quiet enjoyment” of your property, possible an offence under The Landlord and Tenants Acts.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]

MoneySavingPest

OK - I now have a copy of the resident's Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement. This makes no mention of parking spaces, except a general term that the tenant should park their car in the space assigned to the premises if applicable.The original tenancy agreement was signed in 2016 and has been extended on a rolling 6-month basis ever since. VCS started managing the spaces subsequently to 2016 I think, and residents received a copy of "parking regulations" from the managing agent which explained how the new set-up would work, and the need for permits for visitor spaces etc. However, this was simply sent to residents, they were not required to and didn't sign anything in writing agreeing to them. 

So, I think I have an argument that there was no legal obligation on the tenant to give the visiting driver a permit, as this is not stated in the tenancy agreement, and there is no agreement in writing elsewhere that provides for this (which there must be for a right over land to be established). If there is no obligation for a tenant to provide a visitor with a permit, there can be no obligation on the visiting driver to display it.

Thoughts?

I have recently sent my reply back to their Letter Before Claim disputing the charge (and sent a SAR to their DPO), so expecting a visit to the County Court soon.

Coupon-mad

Yes but the frustrating thought is WHY do residents accept this crap imposed on them and not just say:
 'Dear MA,
You may not impose a permit scheme on me and interfere with my prior rights by causing me distress and loss, which will be the end result of the private nuisance of your chosen pet ex-clamper firm targetting and suing residents.  We have rights to park already that you cannot just change and let the ex-clamper lose to pretend they can charge for, and this horrendous and unacceptable 'scheme' is not part and parcel of the general upkeep of the estate within your limited powers.''

John464

Coupon-mad said:

Yes but the frustrating thought is WHY do residents accept this crap imposed on them and not just say:
 'Dear MA,
You may not impose a permit scheme .......

I guess because some residents want some sort of a permit scheme to prevent other people taking their spaces so they have nowhere to park.

NeilCr

John464 said:

Coupon-mad said:

Yes but the frustrating thought is WHY do residents accept this crap imposed on them and not just say:
 'Dear MA,
You may not impose a permit scheme .......

I guess because some residents want some sort of a permit scheme to prevent other people taking their spaces so they have nowhere to park.

An MA is not going to impose a PPC "off their own bat". It will likely be in response to resident complaints to them and/or the freeholder - and the freeholder  will have to sanction such a move

As I've said before our MA sees PPCs as a last resort and is not in favour of them. And, as I've also said before, it is the actions of selfish car owners that causes freeholders, ManCos, etc to introduce parking control of whatever means,

Coupon-mad

Residents only have themselves to blame.  We do say 'be careful what you wish for' when we get the odd person posting whinging about a person parking in their space, once. 

Get over it...do not get a PPC!

NeilCr

Coupon-mad said:

Residents only have themselves to blame.  We do say 'be careful what you wish for' when we get the odd person posting whinging about a person parking in their space, once. 

Get over it...do not get a PPC!

To be honest - given the nature of this forum - you aren't going to attract many posters with this sort of view. You get some on the Housing forum and others posting on the Motoring one

I do think it's rather unfair to say 'Get over it" and to describe such folks as whingers.  As D P Dance and I know rogue parkers can cause major issues on private estates and, if you talk to MAs, they will tell you parking ranks among the most complained about subjects they have to deal with - along with noise and waste.

And yes I am fully aware that regulars on here would never live on such an estate (especially with a PPC there). But there are many who do (and there are many good reasons for living on one) and they are entitled to problem free parking, access etc and to believe that others should abide by the rules and covenants that are in place. 

Whether a PPC is the solution is, of course, a different matter which has been discussed here before

D_P_Dance

Yes but the frustrating thought is WHY do residents accept this crap imposed on them

Because many residents are poor and uneducated .  One of my tenants called me out one night because the consumer unit had tripped.  Another, not my tenant, threw the left over food over their balcony, three piece suites ae dumped and landlords have to pay to habve them removed.   One of my flats was uninhabitable for six months as someone upstairs flushed a nappy down the toilet.  Another leased his parking space to a friend, contrary to the AST..   I could show you a drawer  full of debt collectors letters I have about previous tenants.

And all this in a block where a two bed flat rents at £1000 a month.  Being a small property owner is no longer the golden goose it once was