I was redundant then I wasen't

renegadefm

I admit I wanted to go but kept that a secret from everyone including the union, but to be honest I didnt think that mattered by then because I was originally told by the union even if we appeal we wont win it, so I didnt care.

My whole point is the company made up their own rules in my eyes when they let someone go from a non affected area yet at the last minute kept me from the affected area, and now even the union rep who I know agrees with me but it would cause more harm now digging that up 5 years too late he says.

Hands down I think I been wronged.

renegadefm

Thing is I didnt know any of the details about why my redundancy was reversed until recently really when someone I know knew the guy that left spoke to me about it. Apparently the guy that left was best buddies with one of the upper managment, and heard about the redundancies and pleaded to make him redundant even though it was wrong thing to do as he was from a non affected area. So they released him with a few thousand and turned down my 30 grand exit, thats how I see it.

nicechap

renegadefm wrote: »

I admit I wanted to go but kept that a secret from everyone including the union, but to be honest I didnt think that mattered by then because I was originally told by the union even if we appeal we wont win it, so I didnt care.

My whole point is the company made up their own rules in my eyes when they let someone go from a non affected area yet at the last minute kept me from the affected area, and now even the union rep who I know agrees with me but it would cause more harm now digging that up 5 years too late he says.

Hands down I think I been wronged.

renegadefm wrote: »

Thing is I didnt know any of the details about why my redundancy was reversed until recently really when someone I know knew the guy that left spoke to me about it. Apparently the guy that left was best buddies with one of the upper managment, and heard about the redundancies and pleaded to make him redundant even though it was wrong thing to do as he was from a non affected area. So they released him with a few thousand and turned down my 30 grand exit, thats how I see it.

I don't think you're going to like my reply, but the key problem that I can see is how you look at things.

Your company can choose whatever rules they like for redundancy, as long as its not based on protected characteristics.

If you look at it from the company's point of view, they have saved themselves lots of money which they can use elsewhere. They have found you suitable alternative employment as you've been there for 5 years which you wouldn't be if you couldn't do the newer job.

From your union's point of view they have saved someone from redundancy.

You feel aggrieved because of the way you are analysing it, you do not appear to want to see it from any other point of view. If you carry on with that mindset it will eat away at you, which might affect the way you do your current job which might open up opportunities for your bosses to dismiss you without any compensation.

You need to move on from your sense of aggrievment.

renegadefm

nicechap. I get what you mean, it has affected me and influenced the way I look at it. But a lot of details I have found out recently as explained which doesn't help me. It has refreshed my frustration and anger over it, hence why I have probably come on here about it as a way to vent it all.

The thing the company did wrong according to my union was allowing someone go with a redundancy package from a non affected area and reversing mine to fill the slot in that non affected area. Of course I have only in recent months found out this and the reason behind it, due to the guy being buddies with upper management, and of course this had to be kept quiet at the time. So I imagine anyone in my shoes would be hurting right now, its not been easy to not let it affect me. Especially given that I was practically walking out with a cheque 2 weeks from my leaving date, for that to turn upside down over a 2 minute phone call is quite something really. Of course I didnt know then why they did it so just did what came natural and said thank you and that was that, I didnt even know the guy they released or anyone in the place where they moved me, so after 28 years of being where I was to start again was quite nerve wracking, especially as its not somewhere where I'd have go to through choice.

You can see its not easy to overcome as its not the sort of thing I can talk to people about as I can even get into trouble as it is seen as slander towards the company. But obviously on here I havent mentioned any names.

Blatchford

renegadefm wrote: »

nicechap. I get what you mean, it has affected me and influenced the way I look at it. But a lot of details I have found out recently as explained which doesn't help me. It has refreshed my frustration and anger over it, hence why I have probably come on here about it as a way to vent it all.

The thing the company did wrong according to my union was allowing someone go with a redundancy package from a non affected area and reversing mine to fill the slot in that non affected area. Of course I have only in recent months found out this and the reason behind it, due to the guy being buddies with upper management, and of course this had to be kept quiet at the time. So I imagine anyone in my shoes would be hurting right now, its not been easy to not let it affect me. Especially given that I was practically walking out with a cheque 2 weeks from my leaving date, for that to turn upside down over a 2 minute phone call is quite something really. Of course I didnt know then why they did it so just did what came natural and said thank you and that was that, I didnt even know the guy they released or anyone in the place where they moved me, so after 28 years of being where I was to start again was quite nerve wracking, especially as its not somewhere where I'd have go to through choice.

You can see its not easy to overcome as its not the sort of thing I can talk to people about as I can even get into trouble as it is seen as slander towards the company. But obviously on here I havent mentioned any names.

I think most people get why you might be disappointed. But at the risk of repeating what you have been told multiple times by multiple people over three pages of posts - neither the employer nor the union did anything wrong. You are unhappy about that fact, but I'm afraid that boils down to tough luck - the employer acted lawfully, and rationally, and sensibly. You may not be able to see it that way. But it still makes it true. If you were in their position, then why on earth would you spend £30k making someone redundant when has said they don't want to be redundant, when there is someone who wants to go and will cost £27k less??? They had no idea that you wanted to go because you told them that you didn't, and when you got offered another job you didn't tell them.

Now you are blaming them for moving you to a place that you didn't know, but wouldn't you have been moving to a job you didn't know if you'd been made redundant. And with no employment rights.

Seriously... Being disappointed is one thing. But you are raving, and filled with anger and hatred at your employer and others for something they didn't do. What you believe should have happened isn't based on reality. And it is five years later. You really, really need to talk to someone about your mental health. This isn't normal and it isn't healthy. And it clearly isn't going to get any better because you are stoking it and stoking it. This is not "hurt" and it isn't based on facts. It doesn't matter what you may have recently been told - even if it is true, and it's actually just gossip, then what the employer did was legal and rational. The way you are talking is not good. It will eat you up more and more. It can damage you mentally and physically. And you clearly cannot let it go on your own. You need help. Your GP may be able to advise, but as you are a union member it is with knowing that many unions have free access to counselling and mental health support services. In the latter case you can usually access these without having to ask local reps for access (so it remains confidential). You can check online at your unions site about available support and how to access it.

lincroft1710

renegadefm wrote: »

Hands down I think I been wronged.

Well even if you have (and the consensus of opinion is you haven't been), there's nothing you can do about it.

renegadefm

Blatchford. So why is it then that even my union rep has told me the company we're wrong to give someone a redundancy package from a non affected area in the company. That in itself was an illegal act I been told since. Its just that I cant take out a grievance as its 5 years too late.
So please explain that. They broke rules and procedures, how is that right?

renegadefm

Plus I have tried to explain many times now, I didnt really want to appeal but was told by the union we have to. I think it was just the unions way of blowing hot air up the company. Ok on paper yes it lead the company to assume Im fighting for it, but in my head I thought well ok I will just do it to keep the peace for the union because the union told us we wont win as the place is closing down where we were, and its classed as an affected area. And we were told non affected areas there wont be redundancies, its just how they work so that false hopes cant begin. So how in my case were they allowed to do it? Thats all I really wanted to know. Not that I can do anything about it I realize that.

Blatchford

renegadefm wrote: »

Blatchford. So why is it then that even my union rep has told me the company we're wrong to give someone a redundancy package from a non affected area in the company. That in itself was an illegal act I been told since. Its just that I cant take out a grievance as its 5 years too late.
So please explain that. They broke rules and procedures, how is that right?

Right. Last attempt....

I do not give a flying f### what you were told or by whom or whether you even understood what you were told. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING THE EMPLOYER DID WAS EVEN REMOTELY ILLEGAL and everybody here had told you that time after time after time. NOTHING. NADA. NOT ILLEGAL

They also didn't break ANY rules or procedures. Actually THE EMPLOYER DID EXACTLY, TO THE LETTER, WHAT THE LAW REQUIRED THEM TO DO.

I don't know what your union rep has told you - largely based on the fact that everybody here had told you the same thing and you haven't heard any of it. If they have told you that the employer did something wrong, then I'm sorry, but that is incorrect.

Now there are people on here who are devastated by redundancy. They fight it tooth and nail. Exactly as you did. And it is offensive and insulting to them - they would have given a lot to be in your position. The fact that you didn't mean it when you fought back is not their fault, it isn't our fault, it isn't the employers fault, and it isn't the unions fault - because you told nobody that you actually wanted redundancy.

And you seem to think that your world would have been so much better with £30k. You have no idea that is true. £30k is much less than anyone thinks. What if the new job hasn't worked out? What if you started and had an accident and ended up injured or disabled? What if you ended up on benefits - most of that money would be gone in a flash? What if you never got a job again? You are fixated on a single version of "what if" - there are hundreds of other equally realistic possibilities. Some may even have been strong probabilities.

You are a grown up. The law assumes that grown ups know the law, or can find out the law, and that they will examine their position intelligently and come to a conclusion for themselves. Even if you are in a union, or have a lawyer or whatever, it is still your responsibility, as an adult, to check things and make decisions for yourself. You are intent on blaming everyone else because you didn't do that. I'm sorry you didn't do that. But it isn't someone else's fault you didn't.

And none of that changes the fact that your position now is unhealthy, and it is you that is making it so. Move on. Or get help.

renegadefm

So basically my union rep is lying? You cant blame me for not knowing what to believe and be dismayed by all this.

So could this simply mean individual companies have different rules when it comes to redundancy procedures? Clutching at straws when I say that, because I seem to remember when we had union meetings in the past that when redundancies are happening they ring fence certain areas so they cant be affected. So in essence you end up with non affected areas and affected areas, that's all I know, so it basically means employees in non affected areas cant be made redundant. So really I have been wrong to think they done something wrong based on what I always been led to believe.