I was redundant then I wasen't

renegadefm

Hello.
I have a hypothetical question.
The company I used to work for was being taken over about 5 years ago which lead to restructuring and redundancies.
I was about to be made redundant and knew the package I was going to get and leaving date, which actually suited me at the time because it meant that I would be getting out of working night shifts which I always craved to do, so as daft as it sounds I actually welcomed being made redundant. I had another job lined up anyway.
But with only 2 weeks to go before I actually left I got a phone call from one of the bosses saying they have done a U turn on my redundancy and from immediate affect I am no longer redundant.
My question is was this an under hand action and was the company allowed to do this given it was so close to me leaving, and the fact I had to abandon any future job prospect.
I know its 5 years ago, but its a question thats always bothered me. Could I have resisted this and told them I'd rather remain redundant?

tacpot12

You could not have resisted this. The company can decide to not make you redundant with no notice. They have to give you notice if they are making you redundant, but not if they are not making you redundant.

renegadefm

Thanks tacpot12.
The problem thats never been easy for me to accept is why did they drag me through the deselection process which I had to appeal against and lost, only for them to reverse the decision to make me redundant anyway.
I have asked this question with my union, but they said I should have had an option to stay redundant given I had a job to fall into but also I should have asked it then, not 5 years too late.
I just don't understand the legalities if what they did was right or not.
My problem is I was stupid not to ask it at the time I realize that now but I just politely said thank you to show my appreciation and that was that, but as time went by it sank in that I wish I still left.
I'm 50 now and find working nights even harder than I did 5 years ago.

General_Grant

renegadefm wrote: »

Thanks tacpot12.
The problem thats never been easy for me to accept is why did they drag me through the deselection process which I had to appeal against and lost, only for them to reverse the decision to make me redundant anyway. The idea is that redundancy should be avoided if possible. If they find, however late in the day, that they can avoid a redundancy they should retain the employee.
I have asked this question with my union, but they said I should have had an option to stay redundant given I had a job to fall into (I don't know why your Union would think that you should have such an option) but also I should have asked it then, not 5 years too late.
I just don't understand the legalities if what they did was right or not. What they did appears to have been right. However, you could have resigned - but it would not have been redundancy.
My problem is I was stupid not to ask it at the time I realize that now but I just politely said thank you to show my appreciation and that was that, but as time went by it sank in that I wish I still left.
I'm 50 now and find working nights even harder than I did 5 years ago.

So you stayed with them. If you want to move on, you can. Find another job avoiding night work.

Takeaway_Addict

renegadefm wrote: »

Thanks tacpot12.
The problem thats never been easy for me to accept is why did they drag me through the deselection process which I had to appeal against and lost, only for them to reverse the decision to make me redundant anyway.
I have asked this question with my union, but they said I should have had an option to stay redundant given I had a job to fall into but also I should have asked it then, not 5 years too late.
I just don't understand the legalities if what they did was right or not.
My problem is I was stupid not to ask it at the time I realize that now but I just politely said thank you to show my appreciation and that was that, but as time went by it sank in that I wish I still left.
I'm 50 now and find working nights even harder than I did 5 years ago.

So you were happy to leave but didn't?

Just find another job and move surely?

renegadefm

No I couldn't afford to lose 30 grand. What I mean is I would have had 30 grand as a redundancy package, but to just walk out with no payment would be foolish.
In other words I'd have only left on those grounds because the other job I was going to walk into didnt pay so well. But it would have tied me over especially with 30 grand in the bank it was a no brainer, until I could find something better perhaps.

Blatchford

renegadefm wrote: »

No I couldn't afford to lose 30 grand. What I mean is I would have had 30 grand as a redundancy package, but to just walk out with no payment would be foolish.
In other words I'd have only left on those grounds because the other job I was going to walk into didnt pay so well. But it would have tied me over especially with 30 grand in the bank it was a no brainer, until I could find something better perhaps.

You almost certainly are going to really hate the actual correct full answer. This wasn't your employers fault. Everything they did was absolutely 110% by the book and legal. To the point that an employer is supposed to do everything they can, right up to the last moment, to save the redundant jobs. Which is exactly what they did.

But there is fault here. If you want someone to blame, the person to blame was the person attempting to obtain both all their redundancy pay and a new job whilst keeping it all a big secret so the employer didn't find out and stop the redundancy pay. In other words, it's your fault for keeping secrets. You see, once you get to the statutory notice period, which you must have already been in two weeks before the termination date, you can accept another job, and you can serve something called counter notice - which enables you to leave with your redundancy pay, and the only loss would be any PILON or notice period not served. So your union are right - they would have known exactly how to serve counter notice and the only reason you got stuck was your attempt to keep your situation secret. Sorry, but in trying to grab the money you actually lost it all on your own. Hopefully if you get the opportunity again, you'll remember that your union is being paid for you advice exactly on issues like this. In fact, and sorry, but I'd say that your are the architect of your own cancelled redundancy. The minute your reference request landed the employer knew that if they withdraw the redundancy before you served counter notice, they were on a win win. By withdrawing redundancy they forced you to either stay or leave without the redundancy payment. Either option would save them a big chunk of money.

Don't keep secrets from your union. They are there to stop you doing things like this!

renegadefm

Blatchford, I'm confused what you mean I was keeping secrets. I never kept secrets from anyone.
I was basically being made redundant so it was in my interest to look for another job, but I never got around to starting it because they reversed my redundancy.
What annoyed me is something I havent mentioned. They basically changed their mind on someone else they were not going to let go who wanted to go, so done a complete U turn and let him go and kept me. So they didnt prevent a redundancy in the end.
I never kept secrets from anyone, I was just so surprised at the time and was happy to go, take the money and start my new job, wheres the secret in that?

renegadefm

Don't forget they reversed my redundancy with only 2 weeks to leaving and receiving my cheque, so who in their right mind would turn down a job? The redundancy money wouldn't last forever. And with everyone else looking for the same job as me the race was on for me to get it. Who wants to be unemployed? I got a family to feed. Wheres the secrets in that?
I'm just annoyed an employer can reverse a redundancy at such short notice when obviously its in my interest to seek a new job out. Its crazy to think Im keeping secrets

Blatchford

You aren't listening. I didn't say don't look for another job when facing redundancy. But you obtained another job. Did you tell them you had another job and serve counter notice? No, you did not. And I know you did not because if you had they could not have withdrawn the redundancy notice. Counter notice served during the statutory notice period fixes the redundancy in stone - the employer can't withdraw it. So you kept the new job a secret from your existing employer, and as a result you lost the redundancy because having not told them and served counter notice, you gave them the power to withdraw it. The employer isn't responsible for telling you what your rights are. You didn't do what you should have done; and it was your responsibility to ascertain your rights and do it. You are blaming everyone except the person responsible. Your union said the same thing. You should have asked them then. Not five years later. You are angry at the wrong people. Your employer didn't do the wrong thing. You did.

renegadefm

I didnt deliberately keep it a secret is what I meant.
I was being made redundant, I didnt ask to be made redundant, but obviously I had to move fast to get another job or it would drain too much of my redundancy package.
Who wouldn't immediately look for another job? I didnt do anything under hand. The place where I got a new job didnt ask for a reference from my employer anyway.
I was free as far as I was aware to seek a new job.
They only saved me from redundancy at the last minute due to having second thoughts of letting this other guy go.
Put yourself in my shoes for a minute. I'd already been dragged through deselection process and appealed and lost that, which is when I set about seeking a new job which anybody with a family would do.
I just felt at the time it was incorrect to reverse a redundancy so close to leaving and receiving my cheque. Very unprofessional for a start. My union rep agrees with me, he said they seem to do what they like.