CPM Parking Charge Notice on L&Q Housing Association Estate

CPM_must_go

This is the first notice through the post, so that must make it the NTK. I've contacted the two MPs and Councillor that have replied to me to update them of this.

Here is what I am thinking of sending via CPM's online appeal portal - amendmends and suggestions are welcomed:

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Re PCN number:[REDACTED]

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

Furthermore, there is case law that covers brief loading/boarding/assisting a child to alight at residential car parks (Jopson v Homeguard). Brief stops by visitors or residents - even if not in a bay - are not parking contraventions.

MY NAME AND ADDRESS

THE DRIVER IS NOT IDENTIFIED.

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And I'm going to send this to L&Q once more - it's a little bit more robust and fleshed out based on research I've done here in the forum - again, suggestions and amendments welcome:

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Dear Sir / Madam,

I am writing to you in relation to a parking charge notice (PCN) that was left on the windscreen of my car (reg REDACTED), while it was stopped for the loading of a child into the vehicle in the car park on the evening of 07.01.2020 at the address REDACTED. The PCN was issued by UKCPM (UK Car Park Management). I have attached a copy to this email.

Since you have thus far refused to engage with the fact that UKCPM issued a Parking Charge Notice to my vehicle on 7th January 2020, despite repeated attempts to bring it to your attention, I am forced to once again bring the matter to you.

This email is to direct you to instruct CPM UK Car Parking Management to cancel the issued PCN and close the matter.

My vehicle, registered to me, at REDACTED is in a roadworthy condition and is taxed and insured and was stopped for a matter of 3 minutes outside the childminder's property to allow the loading of a child. The driver, therefore, was merely exercising their right to temporarily stop near the building entrance for loading/unloading. I, therefore, deny and resist any requirement to pay any charge to any party in relation to the PCN.

As a tenant, the childminder (and by extension anyone dropping off or picking up a child) are protected by law. By employing CPM UK Car Parking Management and failing to ensure that tenants and residents are protected from charges resulting from loading/unloading, it could be argued that you have made the property materially less fit for purpose, have deprived the childminder of their existing right have visitors temporarily stop near the building entrance for loading/unloading, and have interfered with her right as a tenant to quiet enjoyment.

L&Q knew, or should have known, that forcing an ex-clamper parking firm upon residents and their visitors to harass and threaten with unauthorised charges, leaseholders such as my childminder, is not part and parcel of 'reasonable regulations' within the Managing Agent's or freeholder's remit.

Finally, UKCPM knew, or should have known, that residents at this location include leasehold owners with title in the land and as a responsible IPC member they were required to ensure their operation does not interfere with the rights and easements enjoyed by the people who live here. It does interfere.

UKCPM are now purusing this ticket and this means currently a representative from L&Q will need to be called as a witness in upcoming legal action.

I have been in touch with both my MP and the childminder's MP, as well as a local Councillor - all of whom are taking this very seriously. I expect L&Q to start to as well.

Should the PCN not be cancelled within 7 days, and myself be notified, then I will consider a claim in the County Court against L&Q to recover any loss. This is absolutely something I do not want to do as it'll be a waste of everyone's time. However, I know I have an extremely strong case, backed by similar legal precedent and I refer you to a similar case where the ruling was in relation to a tenant being issued a PCN from a third party parking company:

Jopson v Homeguard (2016) B9GF0A9E

As I said I hope that this matter will not reach court, but should it reach that stage, then this case will form a part of my defence.

In summary, the driver was lawfully loading, I deny all charges against me and require that you instruct CPM UK Car Parking Management, acting on your behalf, to cancel the PCN. If this occurs within 7 days from the date of this email I will consider the matter closed.

I look forward to your swift response and a swift resolution to this matter.

yours faithfully,

Name
Home address

CPM_must_go

Fruitcake said:

To clarify, did you appeal the NTK as advised? It's the second stage IAS appeal  kangaroo court that should be ignored. There is nothing stopping you making a late appeal if you did not do this, but it will probably be rejected for being too late. You wil lat least be able to show a judge you tried to resolve this issue should it get to court.

So I only received the NTK in the post today - so it's the first day I've been able to do anything at all. That's as far as I've got as I thought if it's an IPC AOS member like UKCPM I had to wait for the NTK before doing anything?

CPM_must_go

Hi guys, just a polite bump on this one - I'd really appreciate someone more experienced giving me some input on both the UKCPM appeal text and the email I'm thinking of sending to L&Q above. I don't want to incriminate myself or make any errors. Really appreciate the help.

D_P_Dance

If the HA is a registered charity consider ining to HM Charity commissioners.

CPM_must_go

D_P_Dance said:

If the HA is a registered charity consider ining to HM Charity commissioners.

I covered this in my earlier post, but just for clarity:

CPM_must_go said:

The_Deep wrote: »

Most HAs have charitable status They should not be getting into bed with notorious scammers so a complaint to HM Charity Commissions may be on the cards.

So, this is a bit murky. I can't find anything for L&Q on the HM Charity Commissions website. L&Q's Privacy policy page (link not allowed as I'm a new user) states:

London & Quadrant Housing Trust (L&Q) is a not-for-profit housing association and exempt charity. We are regulated by the Regulator of Social Housing (registered number L4517) and the Financial Conduct Authority (registered number 30441 R). L&Q is a Registered Society registered under the Co-Operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2014 with number 30441R. L&Q has several wholly owned subsidiaries including L&Q New Homes Limited, L&Q PRS Co Ltd, Quadrant Housing Finance Limited, L&Q Living Ltd and Quadrant Construction Services Limited.

Since I wrote that, I discovered L&Q exempted themselves from HM Charity Commission in 1992:

beta DOT charitycommission DOT gov DOT uk/charity-details/?regid=268136&subid=0

They are now instead regulated by the Regulator of Social Housing (registered number L4517):

lqgroup DOT org DOT uk/privacy-policy
gov DOT uk/government/organisations/regulator-of-social-housing

Their complaints procedure is to raise the issue with the landlord (L&Q), and then if this doesn't resolve the issue, to a 'Designated Person' (MP, local housing authority councillor, recognised tenant panel):

assets DOT publishing DOT service DOT gov DOT uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/851829/How_to_complain_about_a_provider_or_us_FINAL.odt

(I've raised this ticket with L&Q already, as well as both my MP and the childminder's MP, as well as my local Councillor BTW).

DoaM

Post the link without any http or www parts. Perhaps even replace a . with DOT ... we can understand what's meant and post a working link.

CPM_must_go

DoaM said:

Post the link without any http or www parts. Perhaps even replace a . with DOT ... we can understand what's meant and post a working link.

Post edited accordingly.

CPM_must_go

So, following the advice in the Newbies thread, upon receipt of a Formal Demand from UKCPM (which is the first written correspondence with me that I therefore take to be the NTK) by post, I lodged an appeal via the UKCPM appeals online portal as Vehicle Keeper, worded as per the Newbies template. I added a final sentence that per Jopson v Homeguard, the childminder (and by extension anyone dropping off or picking up a child) are protected by law.

Here is the response I received by email this morning:

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MY NAME
MY ADDRESS
Parking Charge Notice Ref: REDACTED
Vehicle Registration No: REDACTED
Location: REDACTED
Issue Date: 07/01/2020
Total Amount Due: £100.00

21st February 2020

Dear Mr REDACTED

[Their photos of the vehicle and the signage are here]

Thank you for your appeal against the above PCN.

We have carefully considered your appeal but on this occasion, I am writing to inform you that
your appeal has been unsuccessful as a breach of the terms and conditions of parking
occurred. The decision has been made on the basis that:

A valid permit was not clearly displayed in the vehicle windscreen.

The photographic evidence of your vehicle supports the above statement.

Signage clearly states “A VALID UK CPM PERMIT MUST BE CLEARLY DISPLAYED IN THE
FRONT WINDSCREEN AT ALL TIMES”.

In order for a vehicle to be parked correctly a valid CPM parking permit must be clearly
displayed within the vehicle windscreen at all times. The photographic evidence of your vehicle
shows that at the time of the contravention a valid CPM parking permit was not displayed,
therefore you had breached parking restrictions within the area and were subsequently issued
with a parking charge notice.

It is the driver’s responsibility when leaving their vehicle unattended to observe the area and
check parking is permitted. There is clear signage placed throughout the parking areas stating
that the land is private property and restrictions apply.

The definition of the verb “to park” is “to place or leave a vehicle in a certain location for a period of time”. By this definition the vehicle was parked, and it must be a matter of fact, not degree.

IMPORTANT NOTE: If we have not been made aware of the name and a current address for
service of the driver, from 1 October 2012 under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act
2012, we do have the right, subject to the requirements of the Act, to recover the unpaid
amount from the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time it was parked.

A Consideration Period is not a ‘free parking period’ where the restrictions do not apply. In
fact, a Consideration Period is intended for one to be able to comply with the terms. As per the
IPC Code of Practice, a “sufficient” Consideration Period should be applied for the driver to
read and consider the terms. However, if there is no evidence of the driver reading the signs or
making any attempt to do so, the length of stay is irrelevant, and the issue of a Consideration
Period is not particularly pertinent.

Please note. All photographic evidence that was taken at the time of the contravention can be
viewed in full on www.paymyticket.co.uk.

Please note: Your appeal was submitted outside of the 14-day discounted period, therefore
you are liable to pay the full fee of £100. You now have 28 days from the date of this letter to
make payment.

How to pay:
Online: www.paymyticket.co.uk
Telephone: 0845 463 4040 (24hr)
Post: Payments & Collections, PO Box 3114, Lancing, BN15 5BR

The Independent Appeals Service (www.theIAS.org) provides an Alternative Dispute
Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals
procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service providing
you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of this rejection. All PCN's will be uploaded to the
IAS website by the end of this working day.

If payment is not received within 28 days of the date of this letter then additional charges may
be incurred, for which you may be liable. The matter maybe referred for litigation in the County
Court which could result in a County Court Judgment being made against you. This may
impact on your ability to obtain credit in the future.

If you appeal and then subsequently pay the charge prior to that appeal being determined,
then the appeal will be cancelled and you will not be given a further opportunity to contest the
charge.

Yours sincerely

A Scattergood
Appeals Department
UK Car Park Management Ltd
0845 463 5050
Powered by TCPDF (www.tcpdf.org)

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So, what now? Do I go to the IAS as the letter states? **EDIT** - Just reread the NEWBIES thread and I see it's a kangaroo court and is pointless. So I won't bother.

I'm still corresponding with the two MPs (mine and the childminder) - but frankly, so far they have been useless. One of them said they are waiting for a response from my local council - to me this seems utterly futile, since I contacted them the day after the ticket was issued and they merely stated:

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Dear Mr REDACTED

 

Your complaint  REDACTED

Thank you for your email regarding an enforcement carried out in REDACTED. From the records available to us it appears that the estate is managed by L&Q therefore, REDACTED Council has no jurisdiction over its parking enforcement. For this reason, I can confirm that your complaint has now been withdrawn.

 

Please contact L& Q regarding this matter. I am sorry we are unable to be of any assistance in this case.

 

Yours sincerely

REDACTED (they haven't done anything wrong as far as I can see, so no need to drag their name into this)

Parking Contract Officer

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I have reminded both MPs several times that at this stage, the only useful point of contact for them is directly with both L&Q and UKCPM as they are the only ones able to quash this ridiculous ticket.

Any thoughts and suggestions welcome, as I feel like I'm rapidly heading to a court date and debt collection agencies as it stands.

I'm also seriously considering approaching both local and national media (both press and TV) - is it a bad idea?

nosferatu1001

Debt collectors? Theyre ignorable, as you should know 
Bailiffs only turn up if you go to court, lose, and fail to pay. So dont do that
Media is rarely a bad idea! 

Fruitcake

"The definition of the verb “to park” is “to place or leave a vehicle in a certain location for a period of time”. By this definition the vehicle was parked, and it must be a matter of fact, not degree."

I believe this may have been taken from Jopson vs Homeguard. 

You could double check and respond with the whole text the judge used in that case where he said loading/unloading or dealing with a small vicissitude is not parking. 


Complaining to local and national press is a good thing as long as it is reported sensibly. No using the F word, but including the fact that MPs across all parties have called this a scam.