Chasing my Wife for my debt

tonyp41

Hello All

I made myself Bankrupt early this year..Now the debt collectors are chasing my Wife for my debt because of a joint bank account overdraft..All the loans and credit cards were in my name but because I forgot to take my wifes name off the bank account before I went Bankrupt they are chasing my wife for the full amount of the overdraft and more...My wife is a housewife and does not work..The only money she has is the family allowance to look after our 5 year old son...I work and have offered to pay monthly towards the debt but I have been told that I cannot give money to just one debt as it goes against the terms of my bankruptcy(is this right)..

Please can anybody help us..My wife is not as strong as me (I would just tell them to take me to court..)..They keep ringing my wife threatening to (lock her up for Christmas),(Send the bailiffs round)..When I'm at work she is too scared to answer the phone or the front door..

I don't know what to do..

Tony

mumzyof2

Jesus they shouldnt be scaring the life out of your wife..thats not on,,but these people just dont care. I cant offer any advice as i havent been there my self and by sounds of it i dont want to but I hope someone is along soon to help you but your worries at rest.
I hope it all turns out for you and your family
Keep your chin up.
Im not sure if im correct here but if they are ringing your wife up X many times a day it might be classed as harrasment i know it is with debt agencys..If so and iam correct right to them saying you accept no phone calls only contact through letters, and tell them you wil take it further as its harrasment. If they do ring you after you have told them...either put phone down or tell them that you have told them you will only communicate via letter
Saying all this i might be totally wrong xxx
All the best

wherediditallgo

Hi Tony,

Yes, what you've been told about making payments to creditors yourself is correct. As you're bankrupt, if you were to give some creditors money but not all of them, you would be treating them as preferential creditors, which isn't allowed. Info on that is here - the bit covering this is at item #6, but the whole page (in fact, the whole site) contains very useful information. Once you filed for bankruptcy, the OR (Official Receiver) assessed your case & decided how much money you're allowed to have as living expenses, with half of any surplus over £100pm going to your creditors through a monthly IPA payment. If you got an IPA (you'd know if you got that, as you'd have had to sign your agreement to it), your creditors are already being paid a percentage & should be in contact with your OR or the agent taking your monthly payments, in which case let your OR know they're trying to get more money. Whatever living expenses you have is mostly yours to do with as you please, but you can't offer money to the creditors.

You can do something immediately about the phone calls. There's a letter here that can be sent to the creditors which they are very unlikely to ignore, so get that sent off today if you can. They are making threats to worry you wife, but they are just threats. Bailiffs can't come & remove goods for unsecured debts without a court order being issued, & she's not going to get locked up either, especially as the debt only went to her because it was in joint names. Any action over & above trying to get her to pay by 'phone or letter has to be legal, & she has to be informed in writing, so please don't worry about that at this stage. Please contact one of the organisations in my signature. Their advice is free & without judgement. They'll be able to advise you & your wife on how to deal with the creditors, make arrangements on payments etc.

SomeoneElse_2

There is no point being scared. They are only debt collectors! They can't hurt you or kill you. Why don't you just ring them up and make a payment arrangement instead of running straight to this site and being given poor advice.

You will have to start paying them something, they are not going to go away.

Furthermore, please do not exagerate what they have told you "You will be locked up for christmas" and "They will send the bailiffs round". It is not likely they would have said this, although they may have advised that bailiff action or imprisonment is a possible course of action. This is not a threat, or harrasment, it is just the innevitable action that could take place if you continue to ignore them.

In addition Mumzy & Wheredid, the rule of writing to a DCA requesting them to stop telephoning you only applies in the US and not the UK.

I know you would prefer them to just forget about you and stop chasing the money, but that is not going to happen. You have had the money from them and now they want it back.

I would suggest offering them £10 - £20 per month.

tonyp41

Thanks for the help..

I will send the letter today to stop them ringing my Wife..

Even though my wife has no money apart from money for my son and the only way she can get money is through me, can the debt collectors still hassel her for money..The amount that they are asking for is about £2400.00..

As it go against the rules of my bankruptcy that I cannot pay them can my wife offer to pay them say £5.00 a month out of the family tax credit...We do live on a very tight budget..

I do pay towards my Bankruptcy (IPA) of £86 per month..

Thanks Again for any help

EvieandPeanut

Dear Someone else

I'm sure that Tony can fight his own battles but, on behalf of him and most of the people who use this site, I find your comments highly offensive and suggest that you go somewhere else if you cannot offer support and help to those who need it most.

the_boy_with_no_name

EvieandPeanut wrote: »

Dear Someone else

I'm sure that Tony can fight his own battles but, on behalf of him and most of the people who use this site, I find your comments highly offensive and suggest that you go somewhere else if you cannot offer support and help to those who need it most.

got to aggree, i was sitting open mouthed at that statement.

as siad in an earlier post the poster is not allowed to make payments direct to his creditors

wannabespendthrift

Tony P

please please do not offer any money yourself directly as stated.

I suspect what has happened here is whilst your Bankruptcy has in effect extinguished your own debts (subject to any interim payment orders etc.) your wife has now become fully liable for the overdraft debt.

I appreciate that your wife might be of a nervous disposition and I would really suggest going with her to CAB or someone who will explain it all to her point by point. If you and your wife had a joint overdraft and you have gone BR she is liable for the whole debt herself, end of. There is nothing really to be done about it except for your wife to come to an arrangement with the OD providers herself. CAB/CCCS might be able to negotiate payments on her behalf if she really would worry too much.

Easy for me to say but they really can't get blood out of a stone. If she has no assets and a low income they will have to take reasonable instalments or nothing. Going to Court is nothing to worry about the Courts are there to ensure an even playing field in these cases and if they do take your wife to Court she should just disclose her financial position to the Court and ask them to make an instalment Order at x per month. Look at it this way if they do decide to sue your wife at least she will have the Court regulate matters and the OD people will have to go along with what the Court says just as she will. If nothing else she will have certainty.

PS - don't beat yourself up about not taking her name off the OD before you went BR. the bank could have picked that up and reported you to the OR for behaving to the detriment of your creditors. the OR would potentially reinstate your wife on the OD anway and you'd be in trouble with them for doing it! your non-action has saved you (and by default your wife) some serious hassle. Chin up. Sxx

sammiboo

SomeoneElse wrote: »

Why don't you just ring them up and make a payment arrangement instead of running straight to this site and being given poor advice.

What a strange first post - there is plenty of good advice on this forum :rolleyes:

nottoolate

cab and cccs wil give you great advice

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/index/getadvice.htm

http://www.cccs.co.uk/

there is information on harrassment here

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=03_harassment

i'll try coping and pasting:o

Factsheet | Harassment

Harassment of people in debt by creditors or their agents is a criminal offence under the Administration of Justice Act 1970. It is often difficult to know what to do when you feel a creditor is not dealing with your account fairly. In order for you to identify what activities by your creditors may involve harassment and what can be done about the problem, this fact sheet outlines:

• the relevant section of the Administration of Justice Act;
• the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) Debt Collection Guidance on harassment;
• how to deal with harassment by your creditors.

SECTION 40 OF THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE ACT

"S40 Punishment for unlawful harassment of debtors"

1. "A person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt under a contract, he:
   • harasses the other with demands for payment which, in respect of their frequency, or the manner or occasion of making any such demand, or of any threat or publicity by which any demand is accompanied, are calculated to subject him or members of his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;
   • falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;
   • falsely represents himself to be authorised in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment; or
   • utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character which he knows it has not.
2. A person may be guilty of an offence by virtue of sub-section (1)(a) above if he concerts with others in the taking of such action as is described in that paragraph, notwithstanding that his own course of conduct does not by itself amount to harassment".

Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance

Many activities could count as harassment. It is important to note that 'anything done by a person which is reasonable' when trying to recover a debt, is not considered to be harassment. Both the Office of Fair Trading and trade associations (run by the credit industry) have produced guidance on what activities may be considered harassment and should therefore be avoided by creditors. The following list is taken from the new Debt Collection Guidance for holders of consumer credit licences.
Creditors are warned by the Office of Fair Trading under the Debt Collection Guidance that the following practices are considered unfair.
"It is unfair to communicate, in whatever form, with consumers in an unclear, inaccurate or misleading manner."

This includes:

• letters that look like court claims;
• not making it clear who the company is or what their role is;
• unhelpful legal language;
• not giving balance statements about the debt when asked;
• contacting you at unreasonable times even when asked not to;
• asking you to contact them on premium rate phone numbers.

"Those contacting debtors must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their authority and/or the correct legal position."

This includes:

• claiming to work for the court or be a bailiff;
• implying action can be taken that is not legally possible such as implying they could take your property;
• using a business name or logo that implies they are a government body;
• implying that court action has been taken against you when it hasn't;
• implying not paying your debt is a criminal offence;
• threatening to take court action in England if you live in Scotland or the other way round.

"Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive."

This includes:

• contacting you too frequently;
• pressurising you to sell property or take out more debt;
• using more than one collection company at the same time or not telling you when your debt has been passed to another company;
• pressuring you to pay in full or in large instalments you cannot afford;
• making threatening gestures or statements;
• ignoring disputes about whether you owe the money;
• trying to embarrass you in public or threatening to tell a third party such as a neighbour or your family about your debts.

"Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair."

Examples include:

• sending letters addressed to 'the occupier' or discussing the debt with someone without knowing if they are you;
• refusing to deal with an adviser acting on your behalf;
• not accepting reasonable offers or passing on payments you make;
• refusing to freeze action if you dispute the debt.

"Charges should not be levied unfairly."

Examples include:

• claiming collection costs when the original credit agreement didn't allow this to happen and making you think you are legally liable for the costs;
• not putting the specific amounts that can be added for collection costs in the original credit agreement;
• adding any unreasonable charges.

"Those visiting debtors must not act in an unclear or threatening manner."

Examples include:

• collectors should explain the reason for any visit and give you notice of the time and date they will call;
• they should not visit if they know you are ill or vulnerable and if they find you are unwell or distressed they should leave;
• they should not come in if you do not want them to and should leave when you ask them to;
• they should not visit you at work or somewhere like a hospital.

HOW TO DEAL WITH HARASSMENT BY YOUR CREDITORS

Contact the creditor

• The first step is to write to the creditor and outline your concerns about the company's behaviour. Inform them that you are familiar with the terms of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act and ask that the creditor takes steps to avoid similar occurrences in the future. Tell your creditors how you would prefer to be contacted and ask that they confirm their agreement to this. A letter at this stage may avoid the need to take further action against the company.
• Tell them you are aware of the OFT Debt Collection Guidance and that you will consider making a complaint about their behaviour under the guidance.
• It is worthwhile keeping a diary of telephone calls, letters, visits etc. It is helpful if another person can confirm what happened, for example, when the creditor called at your home.
• It is usually difficult to persuade the police to prosecute in cases of harassment unless a more serious offence such as violence, fraud or blackmail is also involved.

Consumer Direct and Trading Standards

If you want to make a complaint you can contact Consumer Direct. They will give you advice over the phone or by email. They can put you in touch with the trading standards department in your local council if you need more detailed or face-to-face advice. Trading standards departments can investigate whether an offence has been committed and whether prosecution is appropriate. The penalty is a fine of up to £5,000 in the magistrates court. Also a conviction is likely to provide evidence that the creditor is no longer a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence.
INFORMATION
See the section 'Useful addresses' at the end of this fact sheet for the Consumer Direct details.
The Financial Ombudsman Service

From April 2007 you can complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service about how a lender or debt collection agency has behaved when dealing with your account. You will have to follow the lender's complaints procedure first.
WARNING
You can only complain about events that happen from April 2007 onwards.
INFORMATION
The address for the Financial Ombudsman Service is in the 'Useful addresses' section.
Office of Fair Trading

If trading standards will not act it may be worth contacting the Office of Fair Trading directly. The OFT does not take up individual complaints but their debt collection enforcement team collects information that can be used to take action against creditors who can lose their consumer credit licence.
INFORMATION
See the section 'Useful addresses' at the end of this fact sheet for details of how to contact the OFT.
Trade associations

The creditor may be a member of a trade association with a code of practice. You could find out if your creditor is a member of a trade association and write to them with your complaint. A code of practice is not legally enforceable but the association may take some action against their members.
INFORMATION
See the section 'Useful addresses' at the end of this fact sheet for details of the main trade association

nottoolate

:eek: I didnt realise that was so long!