Smart meter not working properly for over 2 years - EDF now want £900!

HendosRelish

Hi all, hope you are well. If this kind of question has been answered before, or I'm posting it in the wrong place, please let me know.


To make a long story as brief as I can; my 70+ year old dad gets his energy from EDF. In August 2017, he had a smart meter fitted for electric and gas. I had a look at it then and several times since and it seemed to be working fine, giving him readings for both electric+gas, and how much it had cost him so far that day, happy times.
About a year later, they dropped his direct debit payments from £74 a month to £43 and reimbursed him around £300. I don't remember him mentioning this to me, but he obviously just assumed that he'd be overpaying for ages and his smart meter had now given EDF the correct figures for his usage. They adjusted it up to £47 a month in August 2019. Seemed fair enough to him.

But his tariff is about to expire at the end of January and he was told he'd be put on the more expensive standard tariff if he didn't choose a different one, so he went online and tried to change his tariff, but the figures it was giving him were insane (£57000 a month estimate), so he asked me to take a look.

Many online chats (which are useless by the way) and phone calls later, it turns out that his gas reading has never been correctly sent to EDF even ONE time since the smart meter was installed. A couple of months it showed a negligible amount, but some months show that he used no gas at all, which is not possible. My dad, not being tech savvy or knowing anything about this, had no idea of this at all. EDF never once contacted him to inform him there was a problem with his gas usage.

So, this has meant that he has basically not been paying for gas since roughly August 2017, and now owes approximately £900 in backdated usage. I spoke to EDF on the phone on his behalf because all the technology involved was a bit beyond him, and to be fair the woman I spoke to on the phone was very good, but she said she'd have to speak to the billing department to figure out what's going to happen next. They said they'd call him back before the end of the week, but I'm going to speak on his behalf again.


I suppose my question is: what can be done in this situation? Having to pay £900 out of nowhere just after Christmas is the last thing my dad could do with. He's not exactly "vulnerable" but these kinds of things can really affect older people. He's been with EDF for over 20 years he says, so he's a loyal customer, always pays his bill on time, etc. (its Direct Debit so that's not exactly difficult but still :rotfl:)
Considering this discrepancy is entirely the fault of EDF, what do you think would be the best thing to ask for? My dad understands that he will have to pay the money eventually, since its for gas he used. But I'd be extremely annoyed if they demand the lump sum up front. If they do that I think he should leave EDF, since they're so incompetent. Do you think they'll allow for some kind of payment plan to pay the balance off? Does anyone have any similar experiences or stories like this? I'd love to hear the resolution.

Thanks for taking the time to read this really long post and thank you in advance for any help!:money:

Gerry1

HendosRelish wrote: »

So, this has meant that he has basically not been paying for gas since roughly August 2017

Welcome to the forum.

Presumably you mean that he has has been honouring all the DD payments on time, but that EDF haven't correctly billed him since August 2017? That's quite an important distinction.

Perhaps some of the forumites can advise whether the 12-month back billing rules apply in this case?

Anyway, make a formal complaint now to get the eight-week clock ticking in case you need to go to the ombudsman. I trust your dad is on the Priority Services Register?

Robisere

I have been with EDF for over 8 years and have had problems which were actually solved on the Chatline, although nothing like your dad's plight. A few times they put up my tariff payment, I went to the chatline and said no, I won't pay that, but I will pay this: an amount between the one I was paying and the one they wanted me to pay. I have always managed to get what I wanted and I always found the chatline agents (probably Asian judging by the names, but typing perfect English) to be courteous and efficient. If the agent did not have an answer, I was passed to what I assume was a senior figure.

The one time I had a serious figure, which was not the fault of EDF, but Northern Energy, I wrote to EDF, after finding the area head's address from an Email. I suggest you do the same on behalf of your father, but have dad co-sign the letter as giving you permission to write, speak and act for him.

I do not believe your dad will evade the debt, but you may be able to suggest adding a further amount to each month's DD, with a few 'one-off' payments as and when that becomes affordable. Do keep a record of all Emails and phone calls with names, dates and times.

I have found EDF to be approachable and reasonable over the years, as well as having a very good website.

Essmum

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/who-contact-if-its-difficult-paying-energy-bills/energy-backbilling-guide-your-rights

Have a read of that..backbilling will probably apply and imho cases like your fathers is why backbilling rule was brought in.

HendosRelish

Gerry1 wrote: »

Welcome to the forum.

Presumably you mean that he has has been honouring all the DD payments on time, but that EDF haven't correctly billed him since August 2017? That's quite an important distinction.

Perhaps some of the forumites can advise whether the 12-month back billing rules apply in this case?

Anyway, make a formal complaint now to get the eight-week clock ticking in case you need to go to the ombudsman. I trust your dad is on the Priority Services Register?

Hi, thanks for the response!
Yes, that is what I meant sorry. On reading there's a few things I wasn't clear on:
- He pays by Direct Debit every month, the amount that EDF ask for. In August 2017 he was paying £74 a month. In August 2018 they dropped it to £43. In August 2019 they raised it to £47. The difference between the initial £74 and what they've charged him since is the amount for the gas he was using, but not being billed for.

- Also, his "Smart Hub" I believe it's called, the small tablet thing he has in his kitchen, shows an amount for gas usage each day. So I believe the gas meter is functioning somewhat correctly. The problem seems to be that these readings were then never sent to EDF over the "DCC", I believe it's called. It seems like there's some kind of communication error, but the EDF staff member talked me over looking at the actual gas meter attatched to the front of the house and said it sounded like it was working correctly. Clearly it isn't. I read the number on that screen and gave it them, which is where they've come up with this figure.


Also, I'm reading on the Citizen's Advice website that you normally don't have to pay for energy bills that are from more than 12 months ago?
(Seems I'm not allowed to post the link since I'm a new user, its a Citizens Advice page titled"If you think your energy bill is too high or too low")

Your supplier can only ask you to pay for energy you’ve used in the last year. If they send you bills for energy you used more than 12 months ago, you won’t normally need to pay them. This is because you’re protected by ‘back-billing’ rules.

Is this true? This would lower the amount he owes significantly if so.


I'll submit a complaint when I next talk to them for sure, thanks.

Also, he isn't on the Priority Services Register; neither me or my dad had heard of it, but they did mention something about that on the phone and said they'd put him on it now, since it sounds like they're going to have to go back to reading the meter panel on the front of the house. Seems odd that they'd rather send someone to do that instead of just fixing the smart meter with a one time visit but oh well.




As for the online chat, the names definitely sound Indian, and they're helpful of course, but I spoke to them 2 times and both times got told "We'll DEFINITELY email you back when this is sorted" - the first time we heard nothing after a week, the second time at about 5pm we got an email saying "Please call us to resolve this" - obviously this was beyond their remit, which is fine, I just wish it didn't take so long to find that out when one phone call got to the root of the issue. But as you say, this was a bit of a colossal balls up in comparison to the usual fare!


Thank you both for your replies!
EDIT: Seems I was writing my reply while you mentioned the back-billing rules: thanks, it does indeed look like this applies to him. That's something of a relief for sure, I'm sure EDF are aware of this too, but I'll definitely be bringing it up when I talk to them next. Thank you for your help, he'll be happy to hear this at least!

Gerry1

HendosRelish wrote: »

- Also, his "Smart Hub" I believe it's called, the small tablet thing he has in his kitchen, shows an amount for gas usage each day. So I believe the gas meter is functioning somewhat correctly.

The portable thingy is the In Home Device (IHD) and is for amusement only. It may or may not have been programmed correctly. The meter on the wall is the authoritative source.

HendosRelish wrote: »

I read the number on that screen and gave it them, which is where they've come up with this figure

Not being funny, but could your reading have been incorrect? It's very easy to miss a minute decimal point or use an incorrect value.

HendosRelish wrote: »

I'll submit a complaint when I next talk to them for sure, thanks.

Better to do everything in writing so that you have an accurate record should you need to go to the ombudsman.

HendosRelish

Gerry1 wrote: »

The portable thingy is the In Home Device (IHD) and is for amusement only. It may or may not have been programmed correctly. The meter on the wall is the authoritative source.

Noted. From what they told me on the phone, the issue is that the smart meter is trying to send the data, failing, and just giving up after so long and the usage data just vanishes. There was a little image of what looked like a satellite dish on the LCD so I assume that means it had a signal, but there's obviously some kind of fault and I'm going to mention to them that maybe they should think about fixing it. There was a reading on the outside meter once I pressed a button (a number in the high 2000s, with I think 3 decimal points, measured in m3), when I gave to them over the phone they seemed to sound as though it was correct. Assuming they've had no meter reading from my dad's house since prior to August 2017, they can probably match the number they had then with this one and see that it's a sensible figure... or am I giving them too much credit? :rotfl:

Not being funny, but could your reading have been incorrect? It's very easy to miss a minute decimal point or use an incorrect value.

I highly doubt it, the display was big and easy to read and my dad was looking over my shoulder at the same time, so he would have said something if I read the wrong number out. But it's a possibility of course. Tomorrow I'm going to take a photo of the reading so I have it saved, and tell them again. I did some quick and dirty maths and the money they say he owes does seem to tie in with the amount he wasn't paying:
(The £74 a month he was originally paying before the smart meter dropped to £43 a month, a difference of £31
So he was paying £31 less than he should have for 12 months, which is £527 discrepancy
He then paid £47 for 5 months, £27 a month less than he should have been
£27 times 5 months is £137
And they reimbursed him around 300, which equals something in the region of £900, basically what he owes, but I'd need to pore over his bank statements to find out exactly what he paid when
Or maybe I'm adding the wrong things together entirely here, not sure:rotfl:).

I'll make a note of the reading though and give it them again just to be sure.

Better to do everything in writing so that you have an accurate record should you need to go to the ombudsman.

I'll get on that then; I used to work for a bank dealing with Ombudsman complains regarding PPI, I thought I'd never have to look at anything to do with the Ombudsman again...


Thanks once again for your help, and everyone else too, you've definitely set my mind at ease a bit and my dad will be too when I tell him. :beer:

dogshome

The Smart Gas meter is battery powered and can only send out a weak signal - For this reason it's signal is sent to the Mains Powered Electric meter which then sends it onto the supplier.
So either the Gas meter is not sending anything, or the Elec meter is too far away from the gas meter, or there are materials between the two that block the signal - All these are EDF's problem, not yours


Suppliers ' Losing sight ' of a Gas or Elec supply are not rare on this forum, and in most cases the unasked for return of a large Credit to the customer, is the common denominator


Back- Billing does apply.
EDF can only bill for Gas used in the 12 months prior to the date that they did manage to produce a bill, anything prior to that 12 month period has to be written off
Interestingly, if EDF had not returned that credit, then it would have been used to pay towards the unbilled gas, but they did, so Back-Billing still applies

HendosRelish

dogshome wrote: »

The Smart Gas meter is battery powered and can only send out a weak signal - For this reason it's signal is sent to the Mains Powered Electric meter which then sends it onto the supplier.
So either the Gas meter is not sending anything, or the Elec meter is too far away from the gas meter, or there are materials between the two that block the signal - All these are EDF's problem, not yours

The gas and electric meters are on either side of his front door, probably not more than 15ft away from each other. Seems unlikely there's anything in the way, only thing that could be are the metal boxes the meters themselves are in. But yeah as you say, this isn't my dad's problem, he didn't fit the things.

Suppliers ' Losing sight ' of a Gas or Elec supply are not rare on this forum, and in most cases the unasked for return of a large Credit to the customer, is the common denominator

Back- Billing does apply.
EDF can only bill for Gas used in the 12 months prior to the date that they did manage to produce a bill, anything prior to that 12 month period has to be written off
Interestingly, if EDF had not returned that credit, then it would have been used to pay towards the unbilled gas, but they did, so Back-Billing still applies

So essentially, they can only bill him from January 2019 correct? My dad received the payment from EDF I mentioned in August 2018 (it showed in his account the very start of September), so well beyond a year at this point. Assuming all my maths has been correct to this point, his bill should have been about £74 a month based on his tariff (this is what it was before the smart meter !!!!-up), but he paid only £43 a month for 8 months (Jan19-Aug19), then £47 a month for 5 months (Sept-19 onwards including January 2020) - so he should owe them about £383 by my reckoning. Obviously just an estimate but seems right to me. Or is it? Seems a small amount for a yearly gas bill? I've been assuming the £900 figure they quoted is for all gas used since the smart meter error in 2017, but I'm not entirely sure. I guess I'll just have to wait until they call back.

Obviously the higher end of £300 is a much more manageable sum than £900, but still not something you'd want to be paying all at once at his age (plus the fact presumably his energy bills are now going to go up to what they should be at some point!) He'll be happy to pay it in installments though, and I was hoping to get EDF to write some of the amount off as a gesture of goodwill for a 20+ year customer who is now a divorced pensioner, and some kind of assurance this won't happen again. Neither I nor him have the time to monitor his meter and direct debit every month to make sure they haven't cocked something up - reading other posts on this forum, this seems a constant issue; energy companies trying to adjust monthly payments based on incorrect estimates of usage, when I thought the ENTIRE POINT of a smart meter was so they didn't have to estimate! It's really opened my eyes to how crap smart meters can actually be, seems like the whole thing is a bit of scam really.

But cheers for the help! :beer:

Gerry1

Might be worth considering a variable direct debit, which gets rid of of all the stupidities of fixed DDs that may build up a credit balance that's seldom repaid promptly, or bill shock when it turns out not to have covered the usage.

If Ofgem were any good they'd insist that all companies should offer it as an option, but E.On is one that does.

dogshome

Metal Meter Housings !

No surprise that the weak Gas Meter signal fails to reach the Elec meter, what is a surprise is that the Elec meter manages to get a signal to the supplier.


Whoever fitted the Smart meters should have known better and refused to fit the meters into these boxes.
However the rub is that the meter boxes belong to the householder and are not EDF's responsibility, so whilst the metal boxes remain in situe the problem will persist.


Best way out for now is to to report the readings for both Gas & Elec on a monthly basis, to EDF via their website