Smart meter not working properly for over 2 years - EDF now want £900!

Talldave

It would be worth reading both meters weekly from now on, just to get a profile of your dad's (winter) consumption, because there may be an argument at some point about how much gas he uses and when.


Was the meter at 0 when it was installed? Do you or EDF have any evidence of that?


Does your dad have any EDF bills for past years? Those would give you a good idea of his annual consumption, especially if circumstances haven't changed much.

thorganby

You should be able to access the account online to see any meter readings recorded on the system.

If these smart meters were installed in 2017 they will be SMETS1 meters and are unlikely to have been updated to communicate via the DCC yet.

I do not believe that these meters are actually fitted in metal boxes. The electricity meter would not be able to send readings to EDF if it was shielded in a metal box.

The IHD should store information even if the gas meter info has not reached EDF for whatever reason, data should still be stored for 13 months.

A gas meter reading "(a number in the high 2000s, with I think 3 decimal points, measured in m3)" is likely to be correct since August 2017.

Good luck sorting this out as EDF are certainly not the best when they mess up and they have definitely messed up!

HendosRelish

Talldave wrote: »

It would be worth reading both meters weekly from now on, just to get a profile of your dad's (winter) consumption, because there may be an argument at some point about how much gas he uses and when.

I think for a while, I'll be taking some regular meter readings while this is getting sorted out. Neither I nor him have the time (or inclination) to make this a regular habit though; once again, isn't avoiding taking regular meter readings the ENTIRE POINT of a smart meter??? (the tone of that question isn't aimed at you of course, but at EDF who pestered my dad into getting a smart meter fitted in the first place: what was the point if he still has to go outside and read his own meter?)

Was the meter at 0 when it was installed? Do you or EDF have any evidence of that?

I have no concrete evidence that the new smart meter was set to 0 when they installed it, and neither does he that he knows of (should he?); but I've noticed that the new bill they generated online (see below) shows that the meter started at zero sometime in September, presumably when the smart meter went into effect (it was fitted at some point in August).

Does your dad have any EDF bills for past years? Those would give you a good idea of his annual consumption, especially if circumstances haven't changed much.

All my dad's bills are online, but looking on his account they appear to have "cancelled" all his bills and they are no longer viewable as pdfs, and they have generated a new bill for the period August 2017 to January 2019 (887 days, according to the bill). I should have saved copies of his previous bills while I had the opportunity, I had no idea I'd be losing access to them like that. But he only received an itemised bill yearly by the looks of it, and again it was online only.
His usage will have stayed roughly the same, nothing has changed. I don't think there's any issue with the amount he's being billed for the period, its simply that they just haven't billed him at all until now. Thanks for your help though :money:

thorganby wrote: »

You should be able to access the account online to see any meter readings recorded on the system.

Online, his gas usage shows as either zero (literally nothing) or some months it's shown as a stripy graph and says that the amount is "estimated", but most of them are showing nothing. My dad can use his laptop fine for what he wants to do, but he's not the kind of person to pore over his online gas smart meter readings: some people might be and more power to them but the fact his IHD does show gas cost daily means he's never been worried enough to check his online account assuming something was wrong.

If these smart meters were installed in 2017 they will be SMETS1 meters and are unlikely to have been updated to communicate via the DCC yet.

Ahh, that I didn't know. I just read about the DCC online, but you're right that he probably has one of the older type meters then. Thanks for the info!

I do not believe that these meters are actually fitted in metal boxes. The electricity meter would not be able to send readings to EDF if it was shielded in a metal box.

Annoyingly I'm still not allowed to post links or images to the forum because I'm a new user, but if you do a Google Image search for "recessed gas meter box", these boxes the meters are in look something like this. They both open with a yellow key, and have a triangle shaped lock. They vary in design but they're all the same basic thing. Every house on his road has the exact same thing. It has the same triangle shaped lock and he has a little yellow key that opens it. I hope you guys know what I mean, really wish I was just allowed to post an image!

Are these suitable for smart meters to be in? Or should he have never been given them at all if a mobile phone signal can't pass through them? Surely the engineer who came to install them would have realised there might be a problem?

The IHD should store information even if the gas meter info has not reached EDF for whatever reason, data should still be stored for 13 months.

If I bring up his gas usage for 2019, it shows as £0.00. Considering 2019 ended just over a week ago, it's clearly not remembering gas usage for even that short a period of time.
But if I look at the "live reading" of his gas usage, it does show that he's used gas today, and gives him a cost. So it appears to be reading something, but not saving it for very long. I'm not sure if this is an issue with the IHD or the meter outside, but something is wrong.

A gas meter reading "(a number in the high 2000s, with I think 3 decimal points, measured in m3)" is likely to be correct since August 2017.

Yeah, I'm fairly sure the reading on the meter and that told them over the phone is correct. Everything seems to fit together. I'm fairly certain the amount if correct, its just he's never been billed for it and they've suddenly realised and added it to his bill! Knowing what I know now, he can't be held liable for anything before 12 months ago under the Ofgem back-billing rule, but its still a sizeable chunk of cash. My dad constantly worries about money and this has really affected him, its not nice to see.

Good luck sorting this out as EDF are certainly not the best when they mess up and they have definitely messed up!

Thanks mate :beer: I want it sorted for him soon because he's worrying over it, but also because his tariff is due to end on 31st January, and if he doesn't choose his own tariff by then, they'll put him on the standard, more expensive one. I told him not to renew yet before this is sorted out, because if they do a crap job and don't agree to let him pay in installments, he'll be taking his business somewhere else. If I wasn't around to help him out, he'd be panicking that he owes £900 and have no idea what's going; honestly quite sickening when I think of other vulnerable and elderly people they could pull this old trick on and saddle them with a massive bill due ENTIRELY to EDF's incompetence. :eek:

Gerry1

HendosRelish wrote: »

isn't avoiding taking regular meter readings the ENTIRE POINT of a smart meter???

what was the point if he still has to go outside and read his own meter?)

It's slightly off topic, but the entire point of smart meters is to reduce peak demand because there won't be sufficient generating capacity. First it's Time of Use tariffs, then it's Load Limiting, and if all else fails it's Load Shedding. (It's all in the specifications, it's not tin foil hat imagination.)

It's the same principle as the Congestion Charge, peak tube fares in the rush hours, expensive flight / hotel packages on the Costa Packet during the school holidays etc. The shiny IHD toy and remote meter readings are just the froth, as is energy saving, which is now estimated to be a mere £11 p.a. per household.

Perhaps it's quite right that consumers should be forced to have their evening meal and Sunday lunch at times when it suits the generators, but we've never beek asked whether we want this. It's highly dishonest the way that this has never been publicised.

welshmoneylover

Quick question, when your dad was checking his bills to make sure they are accurate, was there an E after the number used?
If so, did he ever query it at all?
Hope he gets it sorted out.

Essmum

Has your dad applied for the Warm Home Discount? It's only £140 but if eligible it would at least reduce the amount owing.
Have you mentioned Backbilling to the supplier?

thorganby

HendosRelish wrote: »

Annoyingly I'm still not allowed to post links or images to the forum because I'm a new user, but if you do a Google Image search for "recessed gas meter box", these boxes the meters are in look something like this. They both open with a yellow key, and have a triangle shaped lock. They vary in design but they're all the same basic thing. Every house on his road has the exact same thing. It has the same triangle shaped lock and he has a little yellow key that opens it. I hope you guys know what I mean, really wish I was just allowed to post an image!

Are these suitable for smart meters to be in? Or should he have never been given them at all if a mobile phone signal can't pass through them? Surely the engineer who came to install them would have realised there might be a problem?

You have received some good advice in this thread but forget talking to foreign call centres or chat sessions online.

The best way to resolve this is to raise a formal complain by emailing their team on

ComplaintResolutionManager@EDFEnergy.com

Details about their complaint procedure here

https://www.edfenergy.com/for-home/help-support/making-complaint

Briefly explain the situation in an email rather than phoning and having to repeat everything again and again to each person that you speak to!

UK meter boxes are not made from metal, so don't mention that as it not the reason for the gas readings not getting to the account.

The first Google hit for "recessed gas meter box" is



https://www.meterboxesdirect.co.uk/uk-standard-gas-meter-box-recessed-595-409-214.html

which states:

Specifications

Compliant to British Standard BS 8499: 2009
Fire retardant BS476, Part 7, 1997, Class 2
Constructed from GRP – Glass Reinforced Plastic
Suitable for all meters including prepay and smart
Will not corrode, weather resistant
Easily cleaned and can be painted
Complete with spigot, hinges, lock and key
Hinges on right

They had a duty to bill for the gas used and due to their installation of smart meters this has not happened.

If you need to post an image on here, simply post a broken hyperlink e.g. the part after http:// or add some spaces etc.

Please let us know how you get on.

dogshome

I keep an eye on the energy accounts of several family members, and oddly enough, I've found EDF to be one of the better suppliers when dealing with Complaints


However, you must follow the procedure:
WRITE to EDF, heading the letter Complaint and send it by Royal Mail, listing the billing history and make a claim for Back- Billing relief


The address is:
Customer Service Team
EDF Energy
FREEPOST RRYZ-BGYG-JCXR
334 Outland Road
Plymouth PL3 5TU


It's Dad who must sign the letter as he is the account holder, or you can enclose another letter with it signed by your Dad, giving you the authority to deal with the account on his behalf

mac.d

Gerry1 wrote: »

It's slightly off topic, but the entire point of smart meters is to reduce peak demand because there won't be sufficient generating capacity. First it's Time of Use tariffs, then it's Load Limiting, and if all else fails it's Load Shedding. (It's all in the specifications, it's not tin foil hat imagination.)

It's not the entire point, and all you do with posts like this is continue the same kind of misinformation that the suppliers do by telling everyone they will save money.

Managing peak demand is a huge part of the smart metering future yes, but a big part is also the possibility of suppliers cutting their costs as they won't need to employ so many people in data collection and billing because theoretically they will get regular, accurate meter readings from everyone, so no more estimates and contested bills.... IF they ever manage to get them working properly. And to a far lesser extent, it lets people far more easily monitor how much they are using.

The rollout of smart meters has been pathetically managed, I'm in no rush to get them, but there are some benefits to them for the average joe public. Though clearly not as many benefits as there are to the suppliers.

HendosRelish

Thanks for all the replies and advice, I'll be as brief as I can:


- As mentioned, I can no longer view my dad's old bills since they were available only online as pdfs (he's on a tariff called "Easy Online 20" I believe), they say these bills have been "cancelled" and I can't view them. It seemed like he only received on of these a year, so no he never checked them, because he put his faith in the smart meter IHD doing its job and showing him his correct energy usage. So, I don't know if they had an E next to them. Assuming that my dad's new meter started at zero, and now reads 2XXX.XXX, someone mentioned earlier this sounds like a sensible amount of gas for 2.5 years usage. I'll have to take his word on that but I've no reason to doubt it. I don't think the amount of gas is the issue here at all.

- No, he's never applied for any Warm Home Discount, I've never heard of it before. I'll look into and see if he's eligible, cheers!

- I had no idea the meter boxes weren't metal; they honestly look like brushed and painted metal. My dad has always called them the "metal boxes", I guess its a misconception people have. This clearly isn't an issue then, and I'll be sure to correct my dad about his "metal" boxes!

- Right now, nothing is really happening because they said they'd phone him back before the end of the week; the person I spoke to on the phone (who had an Irish accent, out of interest, so not a "foreign" call center as such) was just the general customer queries person rather than any sort of specialist; that said I was quite impressed she managed to figure out what had happened. She said that because my dad had suddenly ended up owing a lot of money (on paper), she needed to pass the case to the billing department. However the longer we wait for a call back, the more I'm thinking that it might be better to just call them myself on his behalf.
I will also start writing a written complaint so we can both post it and email to them (I'll make sure its in his name). This is something that will need to be sorted over the phone though I think, not least because I want it sorted before he's automatically rolled onto a new tariff and therefore will potentially have to pay an early cancellation fee if he decides to leave EDF.

-Regardless of any conspiracies (or not) about smart meters being used to cut power to people's houses in times of heavy usage (seems unlikely since I keep hearing that U.K. energy usage keeps dropping year on year, although I know the technology for them to do this is part of the system), my dad was persuaded to get his meter for cheaper bills and the ability to monitor his usage in real time, as are most customers. But yes, finding out more about them has shown me there's definitely more to them than I thought, and I agree the rollout and implementation of them has been terrible in that classic British way!


But thank you all for showing an interest in my question, I wasn't expecting so many responses, I've definitely learned a lot and feel in a much better position to get this sorted in my dad's favour! :beer:

When something new happens, I'll post here to let you all know what happened.