Vehicle insurance - not declaring what can't be 'seen'?

JustAnotherSaver

Couple questions tonight. This one is about declaring modifications on your insurance.


Had a conversation with someone this afternoon. Story short they said they would be declaring what can be seen on a new car they've bought (window tints for example) but not what can't be seen - the car has had a remap and engine alterations to give +100bhp approx. Exhaust mod too i think but not 100% on that.


They said they wouldn't be declaring it because "i never knew".


I disagreed and said i doubt ignorance is an excuse. I suppose if they have a minor bump then the car may not get examined in such a way and they may get away with it.

But worst case scenario someone winds up killed then i'm sure they will go over it with a fine toothed comb and find out exactly how much power it's putting out and then see it's not standard.





So this question is a bit of a double one really.



1) This person clearly does know it's been remapped but they're playing the "i don't know" card. So what about the insurance in this case?


2) And what about a case where someone who genuinely doesn't know a car has been remapped if it has been? My sister bought a 140bhp MK5 Golf 2.0 TDI and the salesman said he thought it had been remapped. I test drove it and in my view it really hadn't been. The salesman never said it had been, just he thought it had, as in it felt quick which i imagine he was maybe trying to use as a sales pitch, who knows.
But what about that as an example also - actually no evidence of it and say it had been but the buyer doesn't know. They can get penalised for actually not knowing through no fault of their own?


Just wondered what the standing is on this.

Car_54

It’s unlikely that an “improved” car will have been sold (or bought) without mentioning the fact. Unless all of that has been done off the internet, it will be traceable by the insurers.

JustAnotherSaver

Car_54 wrote: »

It’s unlikely that an “improved” car will have been sold (or bought) without mentioning the fact. Unless all of that has been done off the internet, it will be traceable by the insurers.

I agree totally with you.


My point is that its a case of one persons word against another.



Claim comes in, insurance investigates, finds it's been remapped, questions the insured, insured says they knew nothing of it.....


You could have 2 scenarios there. One where it is nonsense and the person is lying and the other where it is genuine.



Question is what happens next?

Aylesbury_Duck

Off topic but you had me at “fine toothed comb.”

Nearly everyone I’ve come across says and types it as “fine toothcomb”, whatever one of those is.

Bravo.

JustAnotherSaver

Aylesbury_Duck wrote: »

Off topic but you had me at “fine toothed comb.”

Nearly everyone I’ve come across says and types it as “fine toothcomb”, whatever one of those is.

Bravo.

For when you have them hairy teeth i think

shaun_from_Africa

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

But what about that as an example also - actually no evidence of it and say it had been but the buyer doesn't know. They can get penalised for actually not knowing through no fault of their own?.

There is legislation that covers this:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/6/crossheading/precontract-and-prevariation-information/enacted

According to the Financial Ombudsman,if there is something that could or might have an effect on an insurance policy and the policyholder (or future policyholder) knows or even suspects (such as in the case of the salesman saying that remapping may have possibly be done) then they are expected to find out the true facts before answering any questions on an insurance application.

If something has been done and the person applying for insurance genuinely doesn't know or suspect anything then they shouldn't be held liable for an honest mistake.

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/businesses/complaints-deal/insurance/misrep-and-non-disclosure

Sometimes it’s acceptable that customers haven’t told insurers certain information. This could be when the information:

is something the customer doesn’t know or couldn’t reasonably have been expected to know

Customers are only expected to answer questions to the best of their knowledge and belief. It might not be reasonable to expect a customer to remember exactly when certain events happened, or to know off the top of their head the answer for a joint policyholder. In some cases, it might not be reasonable to expect a customer to know the answer to a question at all.

But the customer still has to take reasonable care not to make a misrepresentation. So if a customer is unsure of the answer to a question, it's reasonable to expect them to find out the answer.

Sea_Shell

I've often wondered this too, with regards "visables", especially optional extras from new.

With so many options available, it's unlikely that your average person in the street will have any idea if their car has "extras" or not, if bought third hand.

Also would retuning (remapping?) be declarable if all it did was restore the power the car had, as new!!? I'd read that cars lose power over time.

The_Rainmaker

The insurance company will work on the balance of probability if they have tints, upgraded suspension, big wheels (all declared) then they will think why do all that on a bog standard car. The chances are the mods will go much deeper.

However if he was driving a bog standard car (visibly) I suspect they won't have given it a second thought as it is highly unlikely.

facade

Re-mapping is always declarable, as it is so easy to find out.
It would also terminate any PCP and the hirer will be liable for the settlement figure, as the manufacturer warranty is void.

EssexExile

You lie to the insurance company, they ask another question which requires you to make up another lie to cover the first lie. A third question follows that requires another fib & before you know it you've forgotten what you've said before & contradict yourself.

foxy-stoat

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

Story short they said they would be declaring what can be seen on a new car they've bought (window tints for example) but not what can't be seen - the car has had a remap and engine alterations to give +100bhp approx. Exhaust mod too i think but not 100% on that.

If he has a bump I doubt the insurers will find out, kills someone and its likely they will do a flash on the ecu. If it really does boost the power by 100+ bhp then he it is UNlikely he can play the "I had no idea" card.