Parking ticket from VCS and rejected appeal as keeper (not driver) - next steps?

88engine

Hi. I've read the newbies thread and have a question on next steps, having followed the initial advice.

I received a note on car, which referenced both VCS and Excel parking.

VCS is IPC member, so appealed via their website as instructed on the thread – after receiving my NTK. Appealed using the standard letter wording on the thread, and did not say I was the driver. I appealed as the keeper only.

Got a rejection letter fairly soon after. Fine is £100, with debt recovery and fine going up to £160 if I don’t pay by 11th January (supposedly). With their rejection letter they included the evidence requested in the standard appeal letter wording (all their photographs of my car and the one sign in A4 size). Rejection letter includes details of how to appeal to the IAS – I understand an appeal to them is pointless.

Can you help where I go from here? Should I really ignore and see if they go away and/or keep all documentation for records in case of small court claims in years to come. It might also be worthwhile noting that a few days after appealing I received a strange phone call asking if the person named as my surname was there – when I stated my full name they said ‘sorry, wrong number’. Could have been nothing, but was a very strange coincidence – equally could have been unrelated to this matter. I only considered afterwards it could have been them ascertaining my identity.

For info, I still have the note on the car, the NTK and the rejection letter if needed.

Thank you in advance for any help offered.

Fruitcake

What happened when you complained to the landowner?

Have you complained to your MP yet about this unregulated scam?

Other than take pics of the site and signage as soon as possible there is nothing else you can do except to wait for the next six years to see if they try court, which they often do.

Also read the "abuse of process" thread by beamerguy, especially post 14 of that thread by Coupon-mad about the fake add on £60.

You can show us pics of the signs and redacted images of docs if you wish by uploading them to a web hosting site such as posimages tinypic, dropbox etcetera then posting the URL here, but change https to hxxps.

Look carefully for the use of Excel and VCS as they are actually separate companies according to Companies House. This has tripped them up many a time in the past.

The_Deep

I received a note on car, which referenced both VCS and Excel parking.

When you say a note, what do you mean? How precisely were these two companies linked?

Please note this is not a fine. It is an invoice from an ex clamper claiming damages for the they allege they suffered at your hands. Pay them not a penny unless ordered to by a judge.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT][/FONT]

88engine

Thanks for the quick reply, Fruitcake.

• On the MP front, I haven't done it. I'm not sure who to contact. My local MP is not the MP of the area within which the ticket was received (that occurred 40 miles away). Should I complain to my local MP or the one for that area?
• On the images front, I will upload all shortly.

Fruitcake wrote: »

What happened when you complained to the landowner?

Have you complained to your MP yet about this unregulated scam?

Other than take pics of the site and signage as soon as possible there is nothing else you can do except to wait for the next six years to see if they try court, which they often do.

Also read the "abuse of process" thread by beamerguy, especially post 14 of that thread by Coupon-mad about the fake add on £60.

You can show us pics of the signs and redacted images of docs if you wish by uploading them to a web hosting site such as posimages tinypic, dropbox etcetera then posting the URL here, but change https to hxxps.

Look carefully for the use of Excel and VCS as they are actually separate companies according to Companies House. This has tripped them up many a time in the past.

88engine

Thank you, The Deep.

I will upload an image of the note shortly.

Okay, I will complain to an MP - can you advise which one to do it to (my local one or the one for the area where the "contravention" occurred)?

The_Deep wrote: »

I received a note on car, which referenced both VCS and Excel parking.

When you say a note, what do you mean? How precisely were these two companies linked?

Please note this is not a fine. It is an invoice from an ex clamper claiming damages for the they allege they suffered at your hands. Pay them not a penny unless ordered to by a judge.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.



Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT][/FONT]

Fruitcake

Edit your post above to remove information about who was visiting who!
Parking scammers read this forum.

Complain to your MP. You could include a curtesy copy to the one for the are where the alleged event took place.

You can ask the council who pays the non-domestic business rates for the car park which should give you a good idea who owns it.
You can also pay the Land Registry a few quid to get a definitive answer, but personally I would save that for court if it gets that far.

Complain to the business The Driver was visiting. They may be able to help or have some input no matter how small. They don't want to lose business because people are being driven away so they should be encouraged to complain anyway.

Does the information on the NTD match exactly that on the NTK? It is my opinion that scammers sometimes deliberately put incorrect details on the NTD in the hope someone will 'phone up and blab about who was driving.

waamo

It would be useful to know what this "note" was and what it said. VCS and Excel are owned by the same person who often doesn't know which company has done what.

Whilst the ownership of the two is the same they are two separate legal entities. It is not unknown for Excel to sue for a VCS run car park and vice versa.

The upshot of them doing this is you cannot form a contract with one and be sued by the other. Their case collapses once a judge sees it.

88engine

Hi all. Thanks for your replies thus far. I have uploaded redacted photos of the NTD, sign they say is on the site and the rejected appeal letter. Typically I've left the NTK at work, but can upload that next week if critical. The NTD clearly references both Excel and VCS, but the NTK and appeal site and rejected appeal letter were all VCS only.

Note https changed to hxxps.

hxxps://photos.app.goo.gl/fwLK35iM2z514FHX8

Coupon-mad

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNgixoTkYkfj-4DFA7uAx4jyQ5tp7o6NzpyQpA5N81gZFwGuGz0erV1aRgPUlOhoA?key=LU15Z1hIclBLN2VXNXRDMFpwUmhnUE9pZXFfTEN3

I received a note on car, which referenced both VCS and Excel parking.

Yes but the issuer has put a cross in pen next to 'VCS'.

Please show us the NTK and how long was the gap in days, between PCN and NTK?

Why did the car have no permit?

How long is the period of minutes between the photos they showed you, and what sort of car park is it and why was the driver there, under whose authority/who were they visiting?

Were they just loading/unloading for 5 mins?

88engine

NTK now included in link to photos (https changed to hxxps):

hxxps://photos.app.goo.gl/fwLK35iM2z514FHX8

The car did not have a permit, as the driver was visiting an office for the first time - unaware of requirements. Period of time between first and last photo provided is ~16 minutes.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNgixoTkYkfj-4DFA7uAx4jyQ5tp7o6NzpyQpA5N81gZFwGuGz0erV1aRgPUlOhoA?key=LU15Z1hIclBLN2VXNXRDMFpwUmhnUE9pZXFfTEN3

Yes but the issuer has put a cross in pen next to 'VCS'.

Please show us the NTK and how long was the gap in days, between PCN and NTK?

Why did the car have no permit?

How long is the period of minutes between the photos they showed you, and what sort of car park is it and why was the driver there, under whose authority/who were they visiting?

Were they just loading/unloading for 5 mins?

Le_Kirk

Your link was made live but was "unlived" after it was reported it contained personal data.