PPS Parking Fine, BW Legal Letters

Vowla

Hello Everyone,


I have read through the Newbies Section and I'm not currently sure where my PCN stage currently fits. I believe I currently sit just before section 2 on the Newbies thread. I have yet to recieve a CCJ but I have now recieved two letters from BW Legal acting on Premier Parking Solutions behalf so a CJJ is probably not far behind.



In February 2017 I recieved a PCN from PPS for parking on Network Rail land. I was a railway employee and I parked where all of my other colleagues parked at the time, on a strip on land owned by Network Rail. The land was split into two by a chain link fence, one side of the fence (where I parked) was a disused platform area with no marked parking bays and employees regularly parked there. The other side of the fence was a Pay and Display carpark with marked bays operated by PPS. I came out of work one day to find that I had a PCN when none of my other colleagues did. We did have a permit we displayed but mine had blown upside down.



It is worth mentioning that there were signs attached to the chain link fence by PPS saying you could be fined for 'parking without a valid ticket or permit displayed,' although they were never lit at 4am, for which I have photographic evidence and it was very unclear if they were meant for the area I was parked or the Pay and Display carpark directly the otherside of the fence on which the signs hung. A lot of my colleagues parked where I was parked so the assumption was the signs were meant for the Pay and Display carpark beyond the fence.



After speaking to colleagues I was convinced, perhaps unwisely, to ignore it and any subsequent lettering that came afterwards, therefore no appeal has ever been lodged but neither has any acceptance of liability. In the mean time I have changed jobs twice and moved house and completely forgotten about the PCN until a letter from BW Legal arrived.



After the letter from BW Legal arrived I took some advice from the Forum and contacted Network Rail who have been and currently are still chasing this up. Network Rail must have contacted PPS as they have returned to me with photos of where my vehicle was parked. Inside the area I state and not in the Pay and Display carpark.



Network Rail have stated in email that despite the aforementioned permit we all held myself and my colleagues should never have been parked where we were, the permits we displayed were for a different area. But interesttingly they also clearly state that I should not have been fined for parking there either.

The area myself and my colleagues parked is outside of the tenancy agreement for which PPS were to operate. There is some uncertainty about whether PPS were asked to monitor that area for fly parking too but it is outside of the tenancy area.



I had sent Network Rail an email with circled photographic evidence of where I had parked to which they explained my permit was not for the area I had circled. Part of an email from Network Rail States:



'So – unless I hear differently – the person should not have been parked there (I think there was a 14 day period of a blockade when we allowed parking in there) – but nor should he have been ticketed.'

'However, the area let to the parking company is not this area either (where I had parked and circled) – it is the area in the middle on the photo, to the right of the blue circle (the P&D carpark the other side of the chain link fence). The Company involved had this until 15/12/2017 but if the parking was not in the area they had a tenancy of then they have no right to ticket there.'


In the time I have been speaking to Network Rail BW Legal have sent me a second letter giving me an ultimatum date on paying or facing a CCJ. But if what Network Rail are telling me is true then PPS and now BW Legal are complicit in fraud. They are attempting to fine me and were possibly charging money to park in an area they had no legal tenancy over which leads me to ask how many people had parked in the area I did with a Pay and Display ticket when the actual Pay and Display carpark was full? PPS will have been fraudulantly accepting money for an area they appear to have had no tenancy over.



I have yet to reply to BW Legal or contact PPS and am unsure on how to proceed. With the information I have recieved from Network Rail I am certaintly content with going to court should it reach that stage but I don't want to contact BW Legal or PPS prematurely with my reasons for not paying and give them time to come up with excuses or pehaps find proof of their fly parking claim. The carpark now no longer exists as Network Rail have built on it and as it was not an area of agreed tenancy for Pay and Display there could never have been any monetary loss to PPS.



Any suggestions or advice would be most welcome.

Redx

You won't get a CCJ unless you lose in Court , so you clearly haven't understood the sequence

You are awaiting a MCOL court claim pack from the CCBC in Northampton , not a CCJ

Think of what the J means , then the CC in CCJ , bearing in mind the Judge issues the Judgment on the day of the hearing , in the County Court

The_Deep

Is the land on which you parked covered by Railway Bye Laws? If so different rules may apply. These are explained in the stickies.

Do not tell them who was driving, and enlist the support of your MP as n[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ine times out of ten these tickets are scams,

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT][/FONT]

Vowla

Thank you for the response.



So would my best course of action be to wait for the MCOL and argue it in court or inform BW Legal that the land owner has stated PPS were acting outside of their tenancy agreement when they fined me , PPS own photos even prove where I was parked, therefore I should not have been fined? The only issue being the apparent claim that Network Rail asked them to patrol this area too although so far Network Rail have found no record of this conversation.

Umkomaas

Who are PPS - Premier Parking Solutions, Phoenix Parking Solutions, or one of the other PPCs that have PP in their company acronym?

Vowla

Premier Parking Solutions.

beamerguy

Vowla wrote: »

Thank you for the response.



So would my best course of action be to wait for the MCOL and argue it in court or inform BW Legal that the land owner has stated PPS were acting outside of their tenancy agreement when they fined me , PPS own photos even prove where I was parked, therefore I should not have been fined? The only issue being the apparent claim that Network Rail asked them to patrol this area too although so far Network Rail have found no record of this conversation.

You can wait but it will not do any harm by informing BWLegal of the situation and at the same time, ask them on what authority do they have to add £60

This will create two things, they will either respond with their authority (doubt it as their excuses cup is now dry)
If they don't respond, then of of course you ask the judge to ask the same question

Redx

Vowla wrote: »

Thank you for the response.



So would my best course of action be to wait for the MCOL and argue it in court or inform BW Legal that the land owner has stated PPS were acting outside of their tenancy agreement when they fined me , PPS own photos even prove where I was parked, therefore I should not have been fined? The only issue being the apparent claim that Network Rail asked them to patrol this area too although so far Network Rail have found no record of this conversation.

Good questions

If it's network rail land and bylaws vapply , the the TOC should take people to magistrates court within 6 month's

So one possibility is to say so and state that you will contest jurisdiction if a MCOL is issued , see the UKPPO thread by Bountyhunter where one person did just that , and received their £100 back , also tack on the fake £60 charge mentioned above too

So it's a toss up between contesting jurisdiction , or defending contractual law , but not until a court claim is issued

All the CCJ talk is a sideshow that reflects you from the main topics

Vowla

Thank you for the replies. In response to the Railway Bye Laws question the land has been owned by the Railway since Exeter St Davids Station existed. It has been owned in some form by Network Rail since 1985 according to the land registry, Network Rail didn't exist in 1985 but it has been passed into their ownership from there inception.



Reading through the Railway Byelaws I don't believe I was in contradiction to either 14.1, 14.2 or 14.3. There were no signs saying no access to vehicles in this area nor was it parked in an area that could be used for charged parking as confirmed by Network Rail themselves who have stated PPS had no juristiction to fine me where they did as it was outside the tenancy area agreed upon for the Pay and Display carpark. with regards to 14.2 the vehicle was also not parked in an area that would obstruct or hinder any part of the railway.



I was not the only person parked here as my colleagues also used the area but I was the only person fined. Possibly targeted because I drove the only van and I still had my old Westminster parking permit on display thus making it look like I wasn't even from the area.

Redx

My point entirely , it's Network Rail land and subject to bylaws , whichever TOC had the station franchise is the one enforcing bylaws , hence why you can mention contesting jurisdiction , plus adding copies of the Network Rail correspondence , plus querying their extra charges

If you chuck enough curve balls at them , they may chuck it back at PP and move onto easier targets , especially if you threaten paying £100 to challenge jurisdiction

Vowla

I still work for the TOC who ran/still run the franchise but the land in question was not leased to the franchise at the time as it was just derelict land adjacent to the station and never used by the station. I am waiting on confirmation of this though with both Network Rail and my employer as the station is one of the few still managed by the TOC and not Network Rail. If it does turn out that the land was covered under the TOCs lease will I be able to simply ask my employer to cancel the PCN?