PCN received on a company leased vehicle

Weekendrunner

Hi,

I am a new to this forum and have read a few of the posts regarding how to challenge a PCN from a PPC.
I have a company vehicle that is leased and is managed by a 3rd party fleet operator - Arval. I received a PCN issued on the 17th Dec 2019 from Parking Eye for an overstay at a shopping car park on 23rd November 2019. This was based upon ANPR entry and exit times with photo images of the car included in the PCN.
I am sure that Arval provided my details to PE as the PCN has my Employer name, followed by my name and home address. Although I believe Arval are the registered keeper, I am the Keeper.
I am required to pay £70.00 within 28 days. I have no intention of identifying the driver to PE on the day of the incident.
I would greatly appreciate any help and assistance on how best to win an appeal against this PCN.
Question1: If I use POFA 2012 and state that I received the Ntk 14 days after the incident occurred would this be sufficient to win my appeal?
Question2: As the vehicle is a leased car does Parking Eye need to obtain all the relevant documents from the registered keeper (Hirer) to prove that liability is with the driver (keeper) and not the Hirer?
Some guidance on the timings (do I submit my appeal just before 28 days from issue of the PCN have elapsed) would be helpful.
A link to a template relevant to my case would be useful too.
Thank you in advance for any help and guidance that can be provided.

Redx

1) no , because its a leased vehicle, check POFA for the timescales and edna basher posts for clarification

2) PE should obtain hirer/lessee/keeper details from the lease co (Arval) and then reissue the pcn , but they should have obtained copies of the hire or lese docs as per POFA , again check POFA for the special requiremants for this aspect (lease and hire and company vehicles)

the stuff you need is in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread, bottom of post #1 , read the links and choose the best template and adapt it accordingly, especially any written or advised on by member edna basher, he knows the score on these

do not be reading the info where YOU are the RK, because you are not the RK

read the info and POFA where its about lease and hire and conpany vehicles only


the pcn in your name allows up to 28 days for appealing as lessee (hirer , day to day keeper , keeper), do not miss the deadline , there is no advantage is waiting until the last minute (except that you should be complaining to the shopping centre and insisting on a cancellation, that is your priority, not appealing) . It appears that Arval corretly named you as hirer or keeper

KeithP

Just to emphasise... you MUST appeal.

If you ignore it, forget it, or otherwise fail to acknowledge that you are the keeper, then Parkingeye (note: one word) will revert to chasing Arval who may well pay PE and send you the bill.

Weekendrunner

Thank you Redx.
I will look again at the Newbie post as you've suggested. To me the section for the Hirer is not so clear. From what you're saying I should receive another PCN from PE. They should send this to me within 28 days. Is that correct?
BTW: Do you reckon I have a good chance to win this or not? I'm not sure if complaining about the lack of clear signage to POPLA will help but I will do this anyway.

Weekendrunner

Thanks KeithP,

Yes, I will definately appeal and I do not intend to sit back and wait to see what happens. The only reason for waiting was to see if PE have correctly issued me with all the documents required within the timeframe.

Weekendrunner

HI,

I've copied and pasted a timeline from another post and amended it to my case.
1) PE has to write to the RK (Arval) within 14 days.
2) Arval has to send PE the details of the Hirer (me) and the documents required by Para 13.2 within 28 days.
3) PE writes to the Hirer within 21 days of receiving the information from Arval with a NTK and the documents required by para 13.2
The hirer becomes the keeper but may not be the Driver!

i have received the PCN but no other documents and there is no specific statement on the PCN that it is a Ntk. Not sure if this really matters or not but if it does then I would be gratefully if someone could clarify. Thanks.

Redx

It doesn't matter , no

If the PCN has your name and address on it and came direct from PE , then treat it as the NTK , no matter if it says NTK or not , probably not , do not wait for another one

The info you found is correct , so use the relevant POFA info and that post for timelines and responsibilities , don't sit around waiting for a notice with the words notice to keeper (or hirer) , too pedantic

They rarely if ever include the documents so that's a win at popla , not following POFA , so use the hire vehicle POFA timeline above , plus documents in your popla appeal later on

For now , use one of the Edna basher template appeals to PE , as keeper/hirer , plus the template

Only a fool would appeal as driver bearing the above in mind , so no blabbing in any appeal and edit your posts above , only the words hirer , Keeper , Driver etc to be used

No I didn't see the signs etc

That 21 days is why I said no to 14 days

The_Deep

Parking Eye signs leave much to be desired. If this gets to court it is very possible that a judge will decide that, because of the length of the T&C ad the small size of the print, they cannot form a contract, read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]

Weekendrunner

Hi,

I've copied and pasted a version of Edna Basher's letter below to suit my case. Is there anything else I should add to this one or should I send this out to PE as it is? As mentioned in the earlier posts - there is no specific statement on the PCN that it is a notice to keeper and no additional documentation has been received from PE. Your feedback and comments welcomed. Thank you.

To whom it may concern,

Reference: Parking Charge Notice ?????????? : Vehicle Registration ??????

I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to me by Parkng Eye as a Notice to Hirer. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.

You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why Parking Eye’s Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.

Given that Parking Eye has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.

Redx

As long as it's relevant to you as hirer and as long as it's your name and address on the Postal PCN , use it as is , no changes

You do not send it at all

You go to their website , choose keeper and copy and paste it in , adding the PCN reference number etc, plus an email you are happy to use

If necessary , setup a free Gmail account and use that email , instead of your private email

The lack of documents means they failed POFA

Weekendrunner

Thank you for your prompt reply.

Okay, I will treat it as a Ntk and I won't wait to be issued with any other documents. Thanks for clarifying.

I've posted a draft of Edna Basher's version of the letter I intend to send out.