Apple on track to become $2trillion company by December 2020?

AnotherJoe

Username999 wrote: »

Interestingly Berkshire Hathaway, Warren Buffets company, has taken a position in Apple since 2017.
They hold approx 250M shares.
It's not Warren buying but one of his managers, even so they must see value in Apple.

Hah so I was about ten years ahead of BH. Take that Warren.

AnotherJoe

BrockStoker wrote: »

I don't think Tesla is a good investment. Elon Musk is too much of a loose canon IMO, and although some of his ideas are good, he does not consider the full ramifications of what he does.

Take his Star-link project for example. While the idea to get internet access to everyone is good, Star-link satellites are annoying a lot of people. Firstly they are hindering astronomical observations, due to their brightness/sheer numbers (and we are only at the start, with many more launches to come).

Secondly, one Star-link has already been involved in a near miss, where ANOTHER satellite was forced to take evasive action in order to avoid a collision.

Junk in space (made worse by collisions) is a very big deal. It can easily get to the point where debris from an initial collision starts to cause further collisions, in a self-feeding positive feedback loop which could result in the end of the space age as we know it.

A lot of people are very worried about what he is doing up there. While it might not result in his company being sued (at least in the case of my first point), it shows how gung-ho he is, and that IMHO makes him uninvestable.

More screwups:
Crashing his Tessla in to Mars may have contaminated the planet with organisms from Earth, meaning that if we ever find life on Mars, we can't be sure that it was not due to Elon!

The recent launch of his new 4x4 "thing". The windows were supposedly bullet-proof, but a steel ball thrown at them easily breaks them. What else could probably go wrong, if he has not even made sure the things (windows) he was focusing on in his demonstration were not even checked/double-checked to ensure there was not a problem? Despite this, 10's of thousands have been pre-ordered. Only a matter of time till there is a product recall IMO!

Trying to sell flame throwers to the general public. WTX?! :eek:

While it might end up that none of this comes back to haunt him in a financial sense, I don't think it bodes well for the future of his operations.

Almost everything in that diatribe is incorrect or misleading. Have you been reading the Daily Mail ?
Space X (the satellites etc) is nothing to do with Tesla. Different companies.
The roadster has gone nowhere near mars and certainly hasn't crashed into it nor will it ever.
The gimmick about non breaking windows (a demo fail and the windows were not meant to be bullet proof) is an irrelevance. And a few more than tens of thousands have been pre ordered, it's up to quarter of a million now, and it won't be produced for 2-3 years so recalls somewhat unkely this year or next or the one after ! But quarter of a million initial sales of what would be a very profitable car in a massive buyer segment in the USA wouldn't be too shoddy for an upstart company (shortly eligible fir the S&P500j
As for "doesnt bode well for the future of operations", Tesla went from a muddy field to a factory producing Model 3's in less than a year, and Tesla is currentiy producing something like 12% of all EVs worldwide plus is in the top ten of many countries car purchases (all cars not just EVs) and has a five year lead on battery technology according to a report from a Tesla skeptic yesterday , so I think he has a handle on operations.
Perhaps try a different source for your information in future?

BrockStoker

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Space X (the satellites etc) is nothing to do with Tesla. Different companies.

Different companies, but Elon Musk is behind both:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/06/05/international_astronomical_union_satellite/

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2205172-astronomy-group-calls-for-urgent-action-on-spacex-starlink-satellites/

Regarding the near miss:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/sep/03/european-satellite-in-near-collision-with-elon-musk-spacex-craft

Also, collisions are a real problem:

Just a few uncontrolled space crashes could generate enough debris to set off a runaway cascade of fragments, rendering near-Earth space unusable. “If we go on like this, we will reach a point of no return,” says Carolin Frueh, an astrodynamical researcher at Purdue University in West Lafayette, Indiana.

Quote taken from: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-06170-1

More about the Kessler Syndrome here:
https://interestingengineering.com/the-growing-problem-of-space-debris

AnotherJoe wrote: »

The roadster has gone nowhere near mars and certainly hasn't crashed into it nor will it ever.

I beg to differ - while it may not have happened yet, it still could:
https://phys.org/news/2018-02-tesla-space-bacteria-earth.html

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Perhaps try a different source for your information in future?

Oh the irony!

:rotfl:

Thrugelmir

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Tesla went from a muddy field to a factory producing Model 3's in less than a year,

That's the speed with which things are done in China.

AnotherJoe

BrockStoker wrote: »

Different companies, but Elon Musk is behind both:

I wasn't arguing that it wasn't. You said Tesla was a bad investment because of what Space X is doing. What have Space X's satellites got to do with Tesla sales and profitability?

BrockStoker wrote: »

beg to differ - while it may not have happened yet, it still could:
Oh the irony!

:rotfl:

Irony? Indeed when you go from saying has already crashed to a minute possibility that it may in several million years .

BrockStoker

AnotherJoe wrote: »

What have Space X's satellites got to do with Tesla sales and profitability?

Same captain at the helm. Elon has shown time and time again that he makes decisions without fully considering consequences and implications. While it may not have gotten him yet, I'm fairly sure that it will come around to bite him sooner or later.

OK it isn't likely to affect profitability in the short term, but I wouldn't want to risk anything for any amount of time with someone as prone to screw ups as Elon is. That's just me though.

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Irony? Indeed when you go from saying has already crashed to a minute possibility that it may in several million years .

While it is unlikely, the point here is that Elon took a risk that might have undone huge efforts undertaken to avoid contamination in the past, for what? A childish stunt!

You/the general public might not think these things are much of a deal, but Elon Musk has the scientific community in particular seething. His ill thought out ideas have the potential to set back science (and humanity) on multiple fronts.

At some point there is likely to be a backlash unless he is quick to address the issues (and stop rushing head long into things), and I wouldn't want to be holding anything connected with Elon Musk when/if that happens. That makes him uninvestable for me, even though I'm not afraid of risky stocks, but the risk/reward profile here is not great IMHO.

Username999

This is getting monotonous now!

sebtomato

Most of Apple's profits come from the iPhone (basically, one product). Not a good position to be in, long term, particularly when the competition is heating up (specifically, the Chinese brands) and also expensive phones are no longer subsidized by operators (quite a different story to pay monthly for a phone and package, as opposed to paying £600 at an Apple store for a phone upfront, which not many people can or are willing to do).

I know so many people around me that were convinced that their iPhone was a superior product (the power of a brand/marketing), and have now switched to Chinese brands or Samsung without regrets... Apple's marketing won't work for ever, and consumers are getting more clever now.

Not much innovation in recent years, more following what other bands already do (e.g. wireless charging, waterproof phones, OLED screens etc). Apple is also very dependent on other manufacturers for parts and components (e.g. memory, screens, sensors, batteries etc). All they need is one manufacturer deciding not to share an innovation (e.g. a new type of battery), and the bulk of their business is suddenly under severe threat...

Unless they come up with unique products or innovations soon (new product category, which Tim Cook, basically an accountant, has failed to do), I would love to see what the company will be valued at in a few years' time.

The iPhone has been a fantastic business, but they need to find something else to drive the business growth going forward for years to come, and it's long overdue now.

Alistair31

sebtomato wrote: »

Most of Apple's profits come from the iPhone (basically, one product). Not a good position to be in, long term, particularly when the competition is heating up (specifically, the Chinese brands) and also expensive phones are no longer subsidized by operators (quite a different story to pay monthly for a phone and package, as opposed to paying £600 at an Apple store for a phone upfront, which not many people can or are willing to do).

I know so many people around me that were convinced that their iPhone was a superior product (the power of a brand/marketing), and have now switched to Chinese brands or Samsung without regrets... Apple's marketing won't work for ever, and consumers are getting more clever now.

Not much innovation in recent years, more following what other bands already do (e.g. wireless charging, waterproof phones, OLED screens etc). Apple is also very dependent on other manufacturers for parts and components (e.g. memory, screens, sensors, batteries etc). All they need is one manufacturer deciding not to share an innovation (e.g. a new type of battery), and the bulk of their business is suddenly under severe threat...

Unless they come up with unique products or innovations soon (new product category, which Tim Cook, basically an accountant, has failed to do), I would love to see what the company will be valued at in a few years' time.

The iPhone has been a fantastic business, but they need to find something else to drive the business growth going forward for years to come, and it's long overdue now.

Apple’s services business is a major focus and a major revenue stream, its only going to get bigger.

jcontest

iPhone sales have been stagnant (Globally) for the past 3~ years.
I must admit, their profits have been impressive. It's still considered a Luxury product and people buy it for that reason.

Nokia had about 40% of worldwide phone sales in 2009. They said iPhone killed it. iPhone never held more than 25% of phone sales, it is now around 12%. Those 4 year old iPhones are probably now getting ready to go to the tip, so 2-3 more years till we see any troubles from that.

The thing is, share curves like Apples have existed before, and there tend to be an inevitable drop that no one seems to expect.

Someone Said that Berkshire Hathaway purchased a big chunk of apple. You need to keep this in mind, BH has about $150 Billion sitting in the bank earning nothing. So it's worth it to them to go for something that can earn even a little. On top of that, There has been times historically that a big buyer like this will throw in, and then run away after a big investment spike. Imagine if BH dumps 250 million shares! Ouch.

Buyer beware, sign me up :P...