Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

JKenH

chrisgeller said:

chrisgeller said:

Martyn1981 said:

Obviously great news for Tesla, but also for the bigger picture, as it shows that BEV's can be profitable

Tesla Model 3 SR+ Reported To Have 39% Gross Margin In China

A few more details on the made-in-China Tesla Model 3 with cobalt-free lithium-iron-phosphate (LFP) batteries have surfaced, as well as some financial speculation.

We’ve already covered some of the information on Tesla’s use of LFP batteries from CATL in its China-made Model 3 Standard Range Plus. The LFP prismatic cells should help the batteries last longer, they are extremely safe, and pricing appears to be highly competitive.

Some specs of the Tesla Model 3 made with the LFP in China include a max speed of 140 mph, 291 miles of range, 12.6 kWh energy used per 100 km, and a motor power of 202 kW. PushEVs notes that on the WLTP test cycle, the range should be around 218 miles. The energy density is 125 Wh/kg.

Just a thought, but that shows the lower energy density of these cheaper batts, as I think Tesla are typically around 250Wh/kg. Also goes to show why the share price of Nikola has soared so much, as their battery specs are vastly superior at 500Wh/kg, far higher than the latest records set in the lab at 350Wh/kg, and done without even having a battery factory nor lab.

Anyone know how 39% GP compares to other cars? Would have though their fixed costs could still be considerable.

Found a nice analysis with the answer to my own question.
https://stockdividendscreener.com/auto-manufacturers/gm-and-tesla-automotive-revenue-and-gross-margin-comparison/
Short answer - it's very good. High teens/20% seems more typical

It is very high. One difference between Tesla and other car manufacturers is that Tesla handles the sales in house whereas other manufacturers sell through dealers so don’t see the full selling price of the cars. The cost of selling the cars will come out of gross profit in Tesla’s case.

Also Tesla will include the value of emission credits sold to FCA in the gross profit.

 It is still very good though if it is correct. 

Martyn1981

JKenH said:

Martyn1981 said:

Obviously great news for Tesla, but also for the bigger picture, as it shows that BEV's can be profitable

Tesla Model 3 SR+ Reported To Have 39% Gross Margin In China

A few more details on the made-in-China Tesla Model 3 with cobalt-free lithium-iron-phosphate (LFP) batteries have surfaced, as well as some financial speculation.

We’ve already covered some of the information on Tesla’s use of LFP batteries from CATL in its China-made Model 3 Standard Range Plus. The LFP prismatic cells should help the batteries last longer, they are extremely safe, and pricing appears to be highly competitive.

Some specs of the Tesla Model 3 made with the LFP in China include a max speed of 140 mph, 291 miles of range, 12.6 kWh energy used per 100 km, and a motor power of 202 kW. PushEVs notes that on the WLTP test cycle, the range should be around 218 miles. The energy density is 125 Wh/kg.

Just a thought, but that shows the lower energy density of these cheaper batts, as I think Tesla are typically around 250Wh/kg. Also goes to show why the share price of Nikola has soared so much, as their battery specs are vastly superior at 500Wh/kg, far higher than the latest records set in the lab at 350Wh/kg, and done without even having a battery factory nor lab.

How do Nikola achieve those figures?

Simples, they use GAKEN logic and science.

JKenH

Martyn1981 said:

JKenH said:

Martyn1981 said:

Obviously great news for Tesla, but also for the bigger picture, as it shows that BEV's can be profitable

Tesla Model 3 SR+ Reported To Have 39% Gross Margin In China

A few more details on the made-in-China Tesla Model 3 with cobalt-free lithium-iron-phosphate (LFP) batteries have surfaced, as well as some financial speculation.

We’ve already covered some of the information on Tesla’s use of LFP batteries from CATL in its China-made Model 3 Standard Range Plus. The LFP prismatic cells should help the batteries last longer, they are extremely safe, and pricing appears to be highly competitive.

Some specs of the Tesla Model 3 made with the LFP in China include a max speed of 140 mph, 291 miles of range, 12.6 kWh energy used per 100 km, and a motor power of 202 kW. PushEVs notes that on the WLTP test cycle, the range should be around 218 miles. The energy density is 125 Wh/kg.

Just a thought, but that shows the lower energy density of these cheaper batts, as I think Tesla are typically around 250Wh/kg. Also goes to show why the share price of Nikola has soared so much, as their battery specs are vastly superior at 500Wh/kg, far higher than the latest records set in the lab at 350Wh/kg, and done without even having a battery factory nor lab.

How do Nikola achieve those figures?

Simples, they use GAKEN logic and science.

  

zeupater

Hi

Don't forget that the Tesla business model is based on vertical integration .... effectively where the majority of other manufacturers in the sector tend to outsource a good proportion of their components to specialist tier1 suppliers and therefore contribute towards fixed costs and profit of others, Tesla keep more of their processes 'in house' and therefore pay towards their own fixed costs thus improving overall margins ....

HTH- Z

JKenH

JKenH said:

Also Tesla will include the value of emission credits sold to FCA in the gross profit.

 

In Q1 2020 regulatory credits accounted for 27% of Tesla’s automotive gross profit.

michaels

Martyn1981 said:

Obviously great news for Tesla, but also for the bigger picture, as it shows that BEV's can be profitable

Tesla Model 3 SR+ Reported To Have 39% Gross Margin In China

A few more details on the made-in-China Tesla Model 3 with cobalt-free lithium-iron-phosphate (LFP) batteries have surfaced, as well as some financial speculation.

We’ve already covered some of the information on Tesla’s use of LFP batteries from CATL in its China-made Model 3 Standard Range Plus. The LFP prismatic cells should help the batteries last longer, they are extremely safe, and pricing appears to be highly competitive.

Some specs of the Tesla Model 3 made with the LFP in China include a max speed of 140 mph, 291 miles of range, 12.6 kWh energy used per 100 km, and a motor power of 202 kW. PushEVs notes that on the WLTP test cycle, the range should be around 218 miles. The energy density is 125 Wh/kg.

Just a thought, but that shows the lower energy density of these cheaper batts, as I think Tesla are typically around 250Wh/kg. Also goes to show why the share price of Nikola has soared so much, as their battery specs are vastly superior at 500Wh/kg, far higher than the latest records set in the lab at 350Wh/kg, and done without even having a battery factory nor lab.

So Tesla have two battery packs for the M3.  Obviously this means that with the smaller pack size there is some space (where the cells for the bigger pack go).  In China they are using that space by switching to a lower density battery, interestingly the range is still a bit less that that of the standard small battery.  There is also a weight disadvantage to the less dense cells but I guess the cost saving is king but I can't see these cells being of much use to Tesla in other products than the 3 and Y SR - unless the pickup and semi have so much space for batteries that they can still have a big enough pack even with low energy density cells.

We need battery day and the US and UK giga factory announcements - perhaps the UK deal is delaying things as the govt don't want to announce their covid recovery strategy until 6th July?

Solarchaser

JKenH said:

much missed and prescient GA suggesting much the same thing.

Interconnectors 
District heating 
Nuclear, nuclear, nuclear 
Cheap Chinese solar panels glued to your roof 

There you go Ken, you can stop pining for him.

The vast majority of forum users id bet are glad to not have him spreading garbage on here anymore.
I certainly am!

EVandPV

Solarchaser said:

JKenH said:

much missed and prescient GA suggesting much the same thing.

Interconnectors 
District heating 
Nuclear, nuclear, nuclear 
Cheap Chinese solar panels glued to your roof 

You forgot marginal coal. 

Martyn1981

EVandPV said:

Solarchaser said:

JKenH said:

much missed and prescient GA suggesting much the same thing.

Interconnectors 
District heating 
Nuclear, nuclear, nuclear 
Cheap Chinese solar panels glued to your roof 

You forgot marginal coal. 

And how the fuel for FF generation is also delivered free to site (like wind and PV) if you ignore the cost! And his claims that the wind kites from Makani were far better than conventional wind turbines and would displace them. [These claims may have been made under his 'cells' account, or one of the many other banned accounts.]

Coastalwatch

Solarchaser said:

JKenH said:

much missed and prescient GA suggesting much the same thing.

Interconnectors 
District heating 
Nuclear, nuclear, nuclear 
Cheap Chinese solar panels glued to your roof 

There you go Ken, you can stop pining for him.

The vast majority of forum users id bet are glad to not have him spreading garbage on here anymore.
I certainly am!

Amen to that!