Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

michaels

JKenH said:

joefizz said:

JKenH said:

JKenH said:

Also Tesla will include the value of emission credits sold to FCA in the gross profit.

 

In Q1 2020 regulatory credits accounted for 27% of Tesla’s automotive gross profit.

Which is strangely never accounted for in internet calculations of how much damage to the environment each Tesla makes.

I’d never thought of it like that but effectively Tesla is saying “if you give us lots of money we can facilitate you making dirty cars without penalty”.

Has anyone done the maths on how much the dirty cars surcharge is effectively subsidising each EV by for a company that would otherwise have to pay a fine?

JKenH

JKenH said:

What to replace it with? Does anyone make a convertible EV?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009-TESLA-ROADSTER-AUTO-CONVERTIBLE-ELECTRIC-/153921679886

Might be tempted if it weren’t for the colour

.....and price. That’s exactly 10 x what I paid for my Elise.

ABrass

JKenH said:

ABrass said:

JKenH said:

JKenH said:

joefizz said:

JKenH said:

JKenH said:

Also Tesla will include the value of emission credits sold to FCA in the gross profit.

 

In Q1 2020 regulatory credits accounted for 27% of Tesla’s automotive gross profit.

Which is strangely never accounted for in internet calculations of how much damage to the environment each Tesla makes.

I’d never thought of it like that but effectively Tesla is saying “if you give us lots of money we can facilitate you making dirty cars without penalty”.

Which is the same as FCA paying a fine to the EU (or whoever gets the money) and the EU giving the money to Tesla. 

Which is true, and is doing exactly what the EU wanted. Making it more expensive to build polluting cars and supporting companies that build greener ones.

FCA have been very opposed to EVs in the past, but are now looking at them to reduce and stop payments to Tesla.

So they're funding increased EV production at Tesla and pushing FCA to do the same. A perfect policy.

I can see your logic but the EU are effectively sending the money out of Europe whereas if they collected the fines in Europe they could reinvest them specifically in green policies and incentives in Europe. Also looking ahead if Tesla expand production (as they are doing In China and US as well as new planned production in Europe) they will be able to sell more regulatory credits and thus allow FCA to produce more dirty cars in Europe. 

I doubt that that subsidising US and Chinese production was exactly what the EU had in mind when they introduced the 95g policy.

Are we going to see other Chinese EV manufacturers jumping on this bandwagon as well?

New planned production? They've already started on the Berlin Gigafactory. It's expected to be up and running in around a year.

But whilst it'd be nice to have EU or UK built EVs that's a bonus, not the main objective

joefizz

ABrass said:

But whilst it'd be nice to have EU or UK built EVs that's a bonus, not the main objective

Because they havent decided yet to jump behind EVs or hydrogen. Several EU countries favour hydrogen and they are waiting to see how it plays out. Theres a view that like DVDs etc the world response could be regionalised with respect to car propulsion. For heavy transport its almost decided and its most likely not EVs.

Martyn1981

Not just cars, buses, trucks and planes going BEV, how about railyard trains using sh batteries?

Zero-Emission Locomotive “999” Restored For Use In California

Before the Tesla Model S era of automobiles, Norfolk Southern (NS) had a project to develop a zero-emission battery-powered locomotive prototype for use as a road switcher. The locomotive, named “999,” didn’t work out as expected and the idea was dropped. It was never put into service.

Things have changed a bit since then. The price of batteries has collapsed, electric motor technology has also improvement, and the market is starting to get plenty of used components from retiring electric automobiles.

News out of rail world (specifically, Railway Age) is that “agent 999” has been bought by Rail Propulsions Systems (RPS) and upgraded the locomotive, including with its own power control systems. It is expected to be used (at last) in commercial service in southern California’s Los Angeles Basin. Diesel engines are in wide use there and the region has horrible air quality as a result, the worst in the country.

RPS is testing 999 and another battery-electric locomotive, 1201, at an Orange County rail yard at the moment. Presuming tests go well, they can then go into service.

Martyn1981

Comparison of the VW ID.3 to the TM3, and they seem like decent competitors, and the more BEV's the better.

Comparing Volkswagen ID.3 to Tesla Model 3 — Prices, Range, Features

Now that you can officially order a Volkswagen ID.3, the car is starting to feel a lot more real. Also, though, some people have been surprised by current pricing and many have been scratching their heads simply trying to find the pricing and the range of various trims.

zeupater

joefizz said:

ABrass said:

But whilst it'd be nice to have EU or UK built EVs that's a bonus, not the main objective

Because they havent decided yet to jump behind EVs or hydrogen. Several EU countries favour hydrogen and they are waiting to see how it plays out. Theres a view that like DVDs etc the world response could be regionalised with respect to car propulsion. For heavy transport its almost decided and its most likely not EVs.

Hi

Which countries are holding back on BEVs & specifically waiting for hydrogen? ... I can't seem to find any source to support that claim! .... anyway, whatever way the long-term situation goes I can't see hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles having much impact on low-carbon personal transportation within any reasonable timescale .... just look at the current situation where Tesla (a relatively small vehicle manufacturer!) alone are building & selling more  Model 3s per fortnight than Toyota (an extremely large vehicle manufacturer!) have built & sold of their best selling hydrogen offering, the Mirai, in total since it's launch around 6 years ago - this alone describes the state of the global HFCV market and the current lack of interest ....

Toyota themselves, having been almost alone in believing that the future lay in hydrogen seem to have completely changed their corporate stance late in 2019 with announcements of range expansion into BEVs effectively meaning that, just as Betamax bowed to the market dominance of VHS, it's better to join the crowd flow than stand-alone watching missed opportunities drive quickly into the distance, after-all, having seen BEV charging infrastructure rolling out all over the world, who would want to invest heavily in hydrogen filling stations before there was a ready-made consumer market: as mentioned, just think of the main reason for the demise of Betamax ... the video hire stores decided to concentrate their investment on VHS - no infrastructure, no market, VHS wins ...

HTH - Z

Martyn1981

Hi Z, in fairness to Joe, perhaps he's referring to the 2016 launch event of the Nikola One HFC semi. I watched that launch and the claims and opinions made were incredible. And the truck did have "H2 Zero Emission Hydrogen Electric" written on the side of it, so that's a great start. Hopefully by now they will have gotten around to actually fitting the 'fully working vehicle' with gears and, oh what was that other thing, oh yes, a fuel cell. I'm sure they just accidentally forgot those bits and pieces on the truck that they said was not a 'pusher' (can't move under its own power).

And now they're about to open the order books for the Nikola Badger pickup, which will do up to 300 miles on its 160kWh battery, and be capable of being upgraded 'any time after purchase' with a HFC range extender.

joefizz

zeupater said:

Hi

Which countries are holding back on BEVs & specifically waiting for hydrogen? ... I can't seem to find any source to support that claim! ....

Misrepresenting what I said again MrZ. Did you not learn your lesson the last time? ;-)

Nobody is holding back BEVs waiting for hydrogen, what they are doing is staggering different rollouts waiting for not an all encompassing winner but the balance of future usage. No point going all in on EV charging if a lot of it has to be ripped out in 5 years time and vice versa.

joefizz

Martyn1981 said:

Hi Z, in fairness to Joe, perhaps he's referring to the 2016 launch event of the Nikola One HFC semi.

Nope. Never heard of it until your post.