Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

Certain countries like China and Norway have sufficient resources to manipulate the market for new cars but they are the exception.  

Governments (unless they have the resources of Norway’s SWF) won’t be able to sustain the levels of incentives indefinitely, 

There is, perhaps, an irony that it is largely on the back of revenues from oil and gas that Norway is able to incentivise EV's with the renewable energy potential for an energy source.

Netexporter

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

Certain countries like China and Norway have sufficient resources to manipulate the market for new cars but they are the exception.  

Governments (unless they have the resources of Norway’s SWF) won’t be able to sustain the levels of incentives indefinitely, 

There is, perhaps, an irony that it is largely on the back of revenues from oil and gas that Norway is able to incentivise EV's with the renewable energy potential for an energy source.

If only Blighty had a sovereign wealth fund, instead of p!ssing the North Sea bounty against the wall.

1961Nick

The ID3 is too expensive & that's the crux of the problem for VW. 

Martyn1981

Netexporter said:

cheap subsidised EVs from and within China

VW have moved all ID3 to China (they already make ID3s for the China market there)

I think it is too simplistic to put VW’s problems down to them not having rolled out EVs fast enough

The problem is they can't make them cheap enough, in Europe. They don't represent value for money. It is interesting that Stelantis can make a £20k ID3-size EV in Europe, though. Perhaps it is "subsidised?

Yep, that's the issue. As Tesla has said from the start, it's not the machine, it's the machine that builds the machine - their factories.

VW (just like the rest of legacy), needs to ramp up production, to get costs down, so that they can sell more, and be competitive. There will be lots of time to develop 10+ variants of every model, in the future, after the transition to BEVs.

Looking at the ID3, which is a bit smaller than a Tesla 3, but weighs about 100kg more, you have the base Pro model at £3k less than the base TM3, but with less range (269 miles). Its battery is actually about the same size as the TM3, but adding another 20kWh, and moving to the Pro S at £3k more than the TM3, gives it a WLTP range of 356miles, v's the est 344 miles for the TM3 with the base wheels.

VWG's Trinity project was supposed to  raise the bar, reduce costs, and speed up production, but for cost saving reasons that's now been pushed back to 2028 or later.

Save now, pay later?

Martyn1981

News of a new EV factory in S. Korea for Hyundai.

Hyundai’s New $1.58 Billion South Korea Plant To Produce 200,000 EVs Annually

The new plant would be the bedrock for HMG's EV operations for the next five decades. “The new EV-dedicated plant in Ulsan is the beginning of a promising future for the next 50 years and the era of electrification. I am honored to share our dream of a 100-year company here,” said Euisun Chung, Executive Chair of Hyundai Motor Group. “I trust Ulsan will be an innovative mobility city that leads the way in the era of electrification, starting with a dedicated EV plant,” he added.

Hyundai also claims that the new plant will incorporate an “innovative manufacturing platform” built at its innovation center in Singapore. The platform includes “demand-driven AI-based intelligent control systems, low-carbon construction methods, and 100 percent renewable energy use.” While the brand also has big plans for the US in terms of new EV models, a lot of the research,  development, and innovation takes place in Ulsan – also the birthplace of the Ioniq 5 and Ioniq 6.

Grumpy_chap

1961Nick said:

The ID3 is too expensive & that's the crux of the problem for VW. 

When we looked at the iD3 earlier in the year, it jumped out as simply being of a far poorer quality than competing products (including those from Skoda) plus the price point, especially when getting the longer range battery and adding all the equipment specification that the TM3 offers as standard, it made a very illogical package from the consumer perspective.
I have no idea why or how VW managed to get it so wrong.

1961Nick

Martyn1981 said:

Netexporter said:

cheap subsidised EVs from and within China

VW have moved all ID3 to China (they already make ID3s for the China market there)

I think it is too simplistic to put VW’s problems down to them not having rolled out EVs fast enough

The problem is they can't make them cheap enough, in Europe. They don't represent value for money. It is interesting that Stelantis can make a £20k ID3-size EV in Europe, though. Perhaps it is "subsidised?

Yep, that's the issue. As Tesla has said from the start, it's not the machine, it's the machine that builds the machine - their factories.

VW (just like the rest of legacy), needs to ramp up production, to get costs down, so that they can sell more, and be competitive. There will be lots of time to develop 10+ variants of every model, in the future, after the transition to BEVs.

Looking at the ID3, which is a bit smaller than a Tesla 3, but weighs about 100kg more, you have the base Pro model at £3k less than the base TM3, but with less range (269 miles). Its battery is actually about the same size as the TM3, but adding another 20kWh, and moving to the Pro S at £3k more than the TM3, gives it a WLTP range of 356miles, v's the est 344 miles for the TM3 with the base wheels.

VWG's Trinity project was supposed to  raise the bar, reduce costs, and speed up production, but for cost saving reasons that's now been pushed back to 2028 or later.

Save now, pay later?

The ID3's biggest problem is the MG4 & to some extent the ID4.

Netexporter

1961Nick said:

Martyn1981 said:

Netexporter said:

cheap subsidised EVs from and within China

VW have moved all ID3 to China (they already make ID3s for the China market there)

I think it is too simplistic to put VW’s problems down to them not having rolled out EVs fast enough

The problem is they can't make them cheap enough, in Europe. They don't represent value for money. It is interesting that Stelantis can make a £20k ID3-size EV in Europe, though. Perhaps it is "subsidised?

Yep, that's the issue. As Tesla has said from the start, it's not the machine, it's the machine that builds the machine - their factories.

VW (just like the rest of legacy), needs to ramp up production, to get costs down, so that they can sell more, and be competitive. There will be lots of time to develop 10+ variants of every model, in the future, after the transition to BEVs.

Looking at the ID3, which is a bit smaller than a Tesla 3, but weighs about 100kg more, you have the base Pro model at £3k less than the base TM3, but with less range (269 miles). Its battery is actually about the same size as the TM3, but adding another 20kWh, and moving to the Pro S at £3k more than the TM3, gives it a WLTP range of 356miles, v's the est 344 miles for the TM3 with the base wheels.

VWG's Trinity project was supposed to  raise the bar, reduce costs, and speed up production, but for cost saving reasons that's now been pushed back to 2028 or later.

Save now, pay later?

The ID3's biggest problem is the MG4 & to some extent the ID4.

And now the e-C3.

NigeWick

I am selling my TM3LR and going back to a 64kWh Hyundai Kona. Some of you may remember that I had an original 64kWh Kona and loved it as it would do a good 200 miles on a charge doing 70mph at 28f in freezing fog with heating & aircon on.

Why you may ask?

Huge increase in insurance cost for the Tesla and it's 60 miles to get it serviced by Tesla. The Tesla is really bigger than we need and the Hyundai service garage is only about 30 minutes walk away. 

I am paying 2 years Tesla insurance plus the part exchange for a 64kWh Kona Ultimate with 5,000 miles on the clock and 4.5 years warranty left.

Tesla was an itch I had to scratch and I am now cured.

Exiled_Tyke

Sounds like a great move.  I've a friend with the small battery Kona and it's a terrific car