Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Coastalwatch

thevilla said:

I was in sunny Wales last week.  We used two Dragon Charging sites, one at St Dogmeals (65p) and one at Aberaeron (35p).  Why the price difference? Looking at their app this isn't a one off.  Do they simply try to milk the busiest locations?  35p seems a bargain although 22kw (6.6kw in the Leaf) so not rapid.  65p on the other hand was a  bit OTT.

Good to see new chargers appearing though.  4 more at Poppit Sands not yet on zapmap.

Hi TV we also came across two Dragon Charging sites, each with four points. At Builth Wells and Rhayader. Both priced at 35p/kWh for 7kW's on Type 2. As we're staying overnight not a problem. Only signed in as a guest at present so have yet to register, but the App was simple to download and operate keeping us updated as the charge progresses. Keeping fingers crossed we awake to a full charge in the morning.

Watch this space.

1961Nick

Solarchaser said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Hexane said:

The very cheapest Tesla it's possible to order right now appears to cost £48,490 and presumably comes with a long waiting time too.

Gee whizz

You seem to be correct which is quite shocking.
Is this price now set in or will it correct when supply capacity normalises?

It will correct when there is proper competition so he has to pull the prices down

Tesla is probably the only BEV manufacturer that could reduce prices & still make a healthy profit. 

silverwhistle

Once those cells are commercially available, they could make it possible for electric vehicles to drive 1,000 kilometers or more on a single charge, according to the company.

But at the same time I hope they produce cheaper vehicles with a third of that range, and recognising that, much as it is a nice to have, many of us don't _need_ that range, or not at least in normal usage. My current car - a ZS EV - which does most of what I want it to without effort has about a quarter of that.

 What some call “negativity” I see as pragmatism & I can’t see why that should be such a problem?

I'm not sure the correct word is 'pragmatism', as some of the criticism is not dealing with the practical issues as they exist rather than some theoretical ideal. But then I've always bought to a low budget and accepted the pragmatic restrictions imposed by it. On motoring boards I see people worried about the implementation of the infotainment system or colour or such like and not buying a car (ICE or EV) on the strength of it. All major purchases can be compromises, and to have an EV I've made a few, but that's not a criticism of the technology. I don't make too many generic comments about EVs or the charging infrastructure, and give realistic comments if asked by anybody interested (such as 'avoid BP Pulse' ;-)  ).

Martyn1981

1961Nick said:

Solarchaser said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Hexane said:

The very cheapest Tesla it's possible to order right now appears to cost £48,490 and presumably comes with a long waiting time too.

Gee whizz

You seem to be correct which is quite shocking.
Is this price now set in or will it correct when supply capacity normalises?

It will correct when there is proper competition so he has to pull the prices down

Tesla is probably the only BEV manufacturer that could reduce prices & still make a healthy profit. 

Very true. I've tried to find some news articles on this, but failed, so I'm referring to 'stuff' Rob Maurer has talked about on Tesla Daily, probably 12-6 months ago.

Tesla prices in the UK went up about 12 months later than they did in the US. Some (including Tesla I think) claimed the US prices went up to cover rising costs, but Rob suggests that only about 25% of the price rise was cost of materials, the rest being demand management as Tesla tried, and failed to keep delivery dates under 6 months. In the end prices rose about 25%, and then followed suit in the UK, with a small(ish) rise of about £2k (early 2022), before the China covid lockdown this year, and a further large rise in TM3 prices to about +25%.

Tesla has always operated demand management through prices, but more in the US, with cost changes of say the standard TM3 or LR varying against each other, depending on orders.

Personally I was naively a bit annoyed at Tesla raising prices so much, but in the US some folk were ordering a Tesla every month, or even more often, then selling them immediately for a $2k profit. So the 'market' will make all necessary corrections when the price is lower than supply and demand dictates, so I now appreciate that it's better that Tesla (or any other manufacturer) gets the money. Back to the rising cost issue, manufacturers with long delivery times, who honour the price when ordered, also have to be careful to price in any potential additional cost increases by the time the car is actually built and supplied.

One last point raised first by Rob, but I think Elon said something similar recently, is the problem with lowering prices. If lead times remain long, how do you lower prices, since folk still waiting for delivery, will see lower prices for new orders? Perhaps this will get easier when delivery times get shorter, even allow for a reduction in ordered prices as a way to avoid bad feeling. Tricky one that.

If I see any articles or vids talking about this I'll post a link, but I think it's mostly thoughts and theories, plus demand will remain higher than supply for some time, so it may remain extremely messy for years?

Coastalwatch

Coastalwatch said:

thevilla said:

I was in sunny Wales last week.  We used two Dragon Charging sites, one at St Dogmeals (65p) and one at Aberaeron (35p).  Why the price difference? Looking at their app this isn't a one off.  Do they simply try to milk the busiest locations?  35p seems a bargain although 22kw (6.6kw in the Leaf) so not rapid.  65p on the other hand was a  bit OTT.

Good to see new chargers appearing though.  4 more at Poppit Sands not yet on zapmap.

Hi TV we also came across two Dragon Charging sites, each with four points. At Builth Wells and Rhayader. Both priced at 35p/kWh for 7kW's on Type 2. As we're staying overnight not a problem. Only signed in as a guest at present so have yet to register, but the App was simple to download and operate keeping us updated as the charge progresses. Keeping fingers crossed we awake to a full charge in the morning.

Watch this space.

Yep, fully charged this morning so out for the day and hook up again this evening in readiness for the drive north to Caer Menai in the morning calling in at Centre for Alternate Technology on the way.

70sbudgie

shinytop said:

Solarchaser said:

Hexane said:

Solarchaser said:

I could give you plenty of tips, especially as you seem to have the same issues over the years Ken.😉

His main issue seems to be not being wealthy enough to afford (or want to pay for) a Tesla. That would greatly increase his EV range, and also resolve almost all of his charging problems, at a stroke.

Unfortunately, those of us who aren't filthy rich, generally don't find that situation changing from one year to the next. So yes, Ken will probably carry on having the same issues over several more years.

The very cheapest Tesla it's possible to order right now appears to cost £48,490 and presumably comes with a long waiting time too.

Ooh that bites deep.
And totally relevant too as I NOW have a Tesla, but I also have a 24kwh Leaf which I took all over England including Kens neck of the woods with its (at best) 80 mile range 3 years ago when the charger network was much less mature than it is now.

So no, not having a Tesla is definitely not the issue.

Nice try though 👍

At the risk of contributing to a discussion, an 80 mile range EV is a totally impractical means to travel 'all over England'. But I think you know that.  I think what you're saying is anyone who can't afford the thick end of £50k is pretty much stuffed if they want convenient long distance personal transport at the moment.  I agree; they are.      

I also disagree. I have a 41kWhr Zoe. Although I don't do really long journeys, I have done Manchester to Lancaster return, Manchester to Birmingham return and Manchester to Oswestry for a long weekend of glamping. Yes, I have had to change how I plan my journeys, but I usually travel with my young children. They require that I stop regularly to refuel them, so I just make sure than I plan to stop somewhere that can also refuel my car. Seeing as I have an aversion to service station fast food, I already look for alternative stops.

My National Trust membership does get totally hammered as a lot of sites meet all my requirements. 😉

Martyn1981

Must be 5yrs+ I've been waffling on about this car on various MSE EV threads. Well, the Sion is now production ready, and may start deliveries in 2023. It makes a great lower range BEV with around 150 miles (rated at 190), and a great price, quoted as €25k / £22k. I'm so pleased this car made it.

Q. So did I order one this morning?

A. No, came close, think it's a great replacement for the IONIQ, bit boxier, but the on-site price seems to be €30k, and the deposit is €500, which although refundable, is still a bit too much for me now, given the company could still fail. Plus the site says EU for delivery, so decided not to explore further for now, since I assume RHD vehicles won't be made till a year or two (or more) later.

With V2L, and solar panels, I really think this basic BEV has massive potential.


Sono Motors unveils a new and improved production design of its Sion solar EV

During its inaugural “Celebrate the Sun” community event held in Munich today, Sono Motors debuted the production design of its upcoming Sion solar EV. Not to be outdone, Sono Motors followed up with an additional world premiere, unveiling its new “Solar Bus Kit” that can be retrofitted on existing city buses to help reduce carbon emissions.

Sono Motors is a German automotive startup founded in 2016 that focuses specifically on solar electric vehicles and solar cell technology. Through an integration of proprietary solar panels into the exterior of its flagship Sion SEV, it can gather an additional 70 to 150 miles of range per week from the sun alone.

As of July 1, Sono Motors was reporting over 19,000 reservations for the Sion solar EV, equating to net sales of €417 million (~$426M) if each and every one of those reservations were to come to fruition. Despite price increases earlier this year, Sono still expects the Sion to have one of the lowest total costs of ownership (TCOs) in the medium-size vehicle segment.

Production remains on track to begin in the second half of 2023 at Valmet’s manufacturing facilities in Finland. As the two companies work together to ramp up Sion production, they are aiming to produce 257,000 SEVs within seven years.

Martyn1981

Nice report on BEV's in the US. I think this is one of few (I may be wrong) that's looks at the supply chain for FF's, as well as 'the long tailpipe' argument for BEV's.

I've re-read it, but may have gone word blind, and missed this point, but I assume it based on the current US mix of generation on the grid, so the 'vehicle usage' component of the BEV's emissions (the largest part) should reduce further over time with the transition to cleaner leccy generation.

UCS Study Shows Lifetime EV Emissions Are 50% Lower Than Conventional Vehicles

The Union of Concerned Scientists, known as UCS, on July 25 published a study that finds the total lifetime emissions from an electric vehicle are 50% less than those from a comparable vehicle equipped with a gasoline or diesel engine. “Over its lifetime — from manufacturing to operation to disposal — the average new battery electric vehicle produces more than 50 percent less global warming pollution than a comparable gasoline or diesel vehicle. Based on the most recently available data on power plant emissions and EV sales, driving the average EV in the United States produces global warming emissions equal to a gasoline vehicle that gets 91 miles per gallon” (emphasis added).

Explaining The Calculations

To assess the total global warming emissions from charging electric vehicles, the UCS study addressed all contributions from electricity production. These include:

• Emissions that result from raw-material extraction, such as coal mining and natural gas drilling

• Emissions from delivering these fuels to power plants

• Emissions from burning those fuels in power plants to generate electricity

• Electricity losses that occur during distribution from power plants to the point where the electric vehicle is plugged in

• The efficiency of the vehicle in recharging and using electricity

The assessment of the global warming emissions from comparable gasoline and diesel vehicles includes emissions that result from:

• Oil extraction at the well

• Transporting crude oil to refineries

• Refining oil into gasoline

• Delivering fuel to gas stations

• Combusting fuel in the vehicle’s engine

Martyn1981

Lots of BEV sales data here, and noting that June was the first month that BEV sales broke double digits for the whole market, with 12% of sales. PHEV's add another 4%. For 2022 so far, the BEV figure is 8.8%, so looking good for 10%+ this year, as a whole. [Note, these results are for June, not July.]

Record EV Sales Month Globally! 12% Share For BEVs!!

Yep, the EV disruption many of us were dreaming of for years is finally happening, and the proof is that despite all the stuff happening right now — pandemic(s), war, inflation, material shortages, etc., etc. (imagine telling what happened in the past two years to our past selves of June 2020 — they would freak out completely) — global plugin vehicle registrations were up 54% in June 2022 compared to June 2021, reaching a record 913,000 units! With China’s production back on track, sales have recovered their previous growth pace, and I wouldn’t be surprised if September turns out to be the first month the world reaches one million plugin vehicle registrations! With China (surely), Europe (likely), and the USA (maybe?) posting record months in September, expect the end of Q3 to be another time of celebration.

With a record month in June, plugins represented 16% share of the overall auto market, with BEVs themselves reaching 12% BEV share! This is the first time BEVs reached two digits globally. Considering the steep drops in the overall market, and that plugless hybrids (HEVs) were down for the third month in a row, that should be considered an amazing result. Peak HEVs is upon us in 2022, with 2023 being the start of downhill sales for this kind of powertrain.

Solarchaser

Well it's finally happened, after 3 years and 9 months of problem free EV ownership,  I now need to deal with either a sticky rear caliper or a jammed handbrake (foot) cable on the wee leaf.

I feel quite sad as I can no longer claim trouble free ownership. 
It's been a good 3+ years 😥