Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

ABrass

Solarchaser said:

The wife ran the leaf completely flat a couple of years ago, I've put in in turtle twice before that.
Still showing 85miles at full charge now, so I see no massive effect.
It showed 82 miles when full when we got it 3.5 years ago, and it always gets charged to 100%.

1 story doesn't make global facts, but thats my experience 

Running to zero doesn't blow the battery, but it causes far more wear and tear than only running to 10%.

Think of it as the battery equivalent of trying to pull away in third gear. It won't blow your car up but it's not going to do the clutch any good. If you do it regularly it will have an effect.

There's plenty of scientific studies that back it up. I believe it's down to increased dendrite formation in the cathode but I wouldn't put money on it.

JKenH

ABrass said:

Solarchaser said:

The wife ran the leaf completely flat a couple of years ago, I've put in in turtle twice before that.
Still showing 85miles at full charge now, so I see no massive effect.
It showed 82 miles when full when we got it 3.5 years ago, and it always gets charged to 100%.

1 story doesn't make global facts, but thats my experience 

Running to zero doesn't blow the battery, but it causes far more wear and tear than only running to 10%.

Think of it as the battery equivalent of trying to pull away in third gear. It won't blow your car up but it's not going to do the clutch any good. If you do it regularly it will have an effect.

There's plenty of scientific studies that back it up. I believe it's down to increased dendrite formation in the cathode but I wouldn't put money on it.

With the Leaf you do it (run to zero) then charge to 100% to reset the BMS. Usually the battery will then show a higher kWh figure. 

Solarchaser

ABrass said:

Solarchaser said:

The wife ran the leaf completely flat a couple of years ago, I've put in in turtle twice before that.
Still showing 85miles at full charge now, so I see no massive effect.
It showed 82 miles when full when we got it 3.5 years ago, and it always gets charged to 100%.

1 story doesn't make global facts, but thats my experience 

Running to zero doesn't blow the battery, but it causes far more wear and tear than only running to 10%.

Think of it as the battery equivalent of trying to pull away in third gear. It won't blow your car up but it's not going to do the clutch any good. If you do it regularly it will have an effect.

There's plenty of scientific studies that back it up. I believe it's down to increased dendrite formation in the cathode but I wouldn't put money on it.

When I got it at 3 years old it had always been charged 20-80%.
I checked leafspy when I got it.
I've always charged it to 100%
I monitored the battery health with leafspy a couple of months ago, and for some reason I can't find the screenshot on my phone but it was I think 91% when I got it,  double mileage and double the age and it had dropped to 89%

So I remain unconvinced.

Different battery chemistries react differently to different situations. 
Long range tesla keeps giving warnings about not charging to 100%, whereas standard range wants a 100% charge every week.

The v2g trial with leafs that Michael's was/is involved with showed that actually DC charging was a benefit to the batteries whereas it had always been believed that dc was bad for the battery. 

It's a new technology and so the information is evolving.

JKenH

Solarchaser said:

ABrass said:

Solarchaser said:

The wife ran the leaf completely flat a couple of years ago, I've put in in turtle twice before that.
Still showing 85miles at full charge now, so I see no massive effect.
It showed 82 miles when full when we got it 3.5 years ago, and it always gets charged to 100%.

1 story doesn't make global facts, but thats my experience 

Running to zero doesn't blow the battery, but it causes far more wear and tear than only running to 10%.

Think of it as the battery equivalent of trying to pull away in third gear. It won't blow your car up but it's not going to do the clutch any good. If you do it regularly it will have an effect.

There's plenty of scientific studies that back it up. I believe it's down to increased dendrite formation in the cathode but I wouldn't put money on it.

When I got it at 3 years old it had always been charged 20-80%.
I checked leafspy when I got it.
I've always charged it to 100%
I monitored the battery health with leafspy a couple of months ago, and for some reason I can't find the screenshot on my phone but it was I think 91% when I got it,  double mileage and double the age and it had dropped to 89%

So I remain unconvinced.

Different battery chemistries react differently to different situations. 
Long range tesla keeps giving warnings about not charging to 100%, whereas standard range wants a 100% charge every week.

The v2g trial with leafs that Michael's was/is involved with showed that actually DC charging was a benefit to the batteries whereas it had always been believed that dc was bad for the battery. 

It's a new technology and so the information is evolving.

The figures for my Leaf were 

8 April 21 SoH 93.88% and on 100% charge 37.1 kWh 5942 miles.
2 May 22 SoH 93.61% and on 100% charge 37.0 kWh 13236 miles.

ABrass

Solarchaser said:

ABrass said:

Solarchaser said:

The wife ran the leaf completely flat a couple of years ago, I've put in in turtle twice before that.
Still showing 85miles at full charge now, so I see no massive effect.
It showed 82 miles when full when we got it 3.5 years ago, and it always gets charged to 100%.

1 story doesn't make global facts, but thats my experience 

Running to zero doesn't blow the battery, but it causes far more wear and tear than only running to 10%.

Think of it as the battery equivalent of trying to pull away in third gear. It won't blow your car up but it's not going to do the clutch any good. If you do it regularly it will have an effect.

There's plenty of scientific studies that back it up. I believe it's down to increased dendrite formation in the cathode but I wouldn't put money on it.

When I got it at 3 years old it had always been charged 20-80%.
I checked leafspy when I got it.
I've always charged it to 100%
I monitored the battery health with leafspy a couple of months ago, and for some reason I can't find the screenshot on my phone but it was I think 91% when I got it,  double mileage and double the age and it had dropped to 89%

So I remain unconvinced.

Different battery chemistries react differently to different situations. 
Long range tesla keeps giving warnings about not charging to 100%, whereas standard range wants a 100% charge every week.

The v2g trial with leafs that Michael's was/is involved with showed that actually DC charging was a benefit to the batteries whereas it had always been believed that dc was bad for the battery. 

It's a new technology and so the information is evolving.

If you want to stick with anecdote over science go for it.

But you might want to note that I mentioned the lower end, not the upper. Because that's the damaging bit for all chemistries I'm aware of. Fully charging a Nice based cell also causes more wear but, again, far less than full discharges.

There are a lot of chemistries out there and some react badly to being fully charged worse than others. LFP has long been known not to suffer from high levels of charge. If you want to know what the best upper limit for your particular leaf battery is you'll need to know exactly what Nickel mix you're using.

Solarchaser

Hardly anecdotal, it's factual. 

Now if you wanted to take the view of an outlier, I could see the logic, but calling it anecdotal when it's factual is far from scientific, however feel free to continue with the condescending tone, it warms the cockles of my heart 🙂

silverwhistle

I'm happy with my EV, but I really don't appreciate it when it is implied that I don't like negative posts or in some way ignoring problems. When my neighbour wanders across and is interested, or when a young relative speaks to me about EVs I make clear the issues that might occur, depending on _their_ circumstances. I don't use personal experience to extrapolate - someone else used that word upthread - a more general conclusion. It is made very clear to anyone that my car suits my mileage and my normal usage pattern.

I also don't use long-winded stories concluding with statements like “How anyone using an electric car for business manages, I just don’t know. “ Frankly the individual situation quoted as explanatory context is not actually relevant. I'd have more likely said something like: " lots of people use the cars for business but I'd want a longer range model and be prepared to do a bit more planning and potentiallyget  caught out with the inadequacies of the charging network".

How information is presented and used is important, and it does impact on how it is perceived.

For the more practical issues of using an EV it's best to point people in the direction of forums like SpeakEV, where we will all happily excoriate BP Pulse or the charging desert that is North Yorkshire (or Cambridgeshire) or even post tales of charging woes.

JKenH

silverwhistle said:

I'm happy with my EV, but I really don't appreciate it when it is implied that I don't like negative posts or in some way ignoring problems. When my neighbour wanders across and is interested, or when a young relative speaks to me about EVs I make clear the issues that might occur, depending on _their_ circumstances. I don't use personal experience to extrapolate - someone else used that word upthread - a more general conclusion. It is made very clear to anyone that my car suits my mileage and my normal usage pattern.

I also don't use long-winded stories concluding with statements like “How anyone using an electric car for business manages, I just don’t know. “ Frankly the individual situation quoted as explanatory context is not actually relevant. I'd have more likely said something like: " lots of people use the cars for business but I'd want a longer range model and be prepared to do a bit more planning and potentiallyget  caught out with the inadequacies of the charging network".

How information is presented and used is important, and it does impact on how it is perceived.

For the more practical issues of using an EV it's best to point people in the direction of forums like SpeakEV, where we will all happily excoriate BP Pulse or the charging desert that is North Yorkshire (or Cambridgeshire) or even post tales of charging woes.

I could say plenty in reply but instead will just point out that there is now a separate EV Discussion thread on here where anecdotes and personal experience are welcome but personal attacks on individuals are not. Those of us who have personal experience of charging woes can post them and those who haven’t can say they haven’t experienced a problem. It is up to the readers then to make their own mind up just like I do when I read customer reviews on Amazon. No doubt we will see you on there but just remember, there like on the football pitch, it’s kick the ball not the player.

Grumpy_chap

silverwhistle said:

I'm happy with my EV, but I really don't appreciate it when it is implied that I don't like negative posts or in some way ignoring problems. 

The trouble is, irrespective of individual posters, this thread can no longer maintain balance as it is now redefined as "BEV Cheerleading Thread" so any negative observation is not within that criteria.

2nd_time_buyer

I think the main point was that the thread should not be argumentative.