Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

CKhalvashi

gefnew said:

They will become more expensive to run when the Government bring in new taxation to cover loss of fossil fuel income, eg road pricing, tax on charging points to replace lost revenue etc etc. VAT on charging points will be 20% instead of 5% even at home due to your chargers being networked.

But you're not looking at the cost reductions to the NHS from cleaner air, nor are you looking at the potential additional revenues in certain parts that would fit with EVs (I believe chargers from some countries have duty on them).

Not saying that EVs don't have a lower government revenue, but am saying that in large numbers they likely will reduce expenses for the government too.

gefnew

But the treasury do not look at that do they,  just loss of income and where to to recover it from.

thevilla

gefnew said:

But the treasury do not look at that do they,  just loss of income and where to to recover it from.

Imagine all the money which will stay in the UK buying wind instead of paying for foreign oil?

What's your point anyway?  Don't buy an EV 'cos they're out to get you?  Is anyone under the mistaken belief that the cheap motoring will last forever?  Doesn't that make it better to dive in earlier (If you can afford the up front cost).

ABrass

gefnew said:

But the treasury do not look at that do they,  just loss of income and where to to recover it from.

They'll up the taxes on all vehicles, and pile even more on ICE. So EVs will still be ahead.

CKhalvashi

500 miles a week at 7l/100km (62 miles, with some London driving) at the £1.71/l I saw today = £95 in diesel per week or around 19p/mile.
500 miles a week at 4-ish miles/kWh, even at the price capped 28.5p = 125*.285, or £36 of electricity per week or 7.2p/mile. I pay a bit less than this, as I'm sure do many here.

£3000/year in savings on the price cap (I had a very decent tariff before it expired at the start of this month so was spending less than 3p/mile on charging).

Mine's a '21' plate sitting on around 19k miles at the moment, don't have historic figures for petrol/diesel, but at an educated guess it's saved 10-12% of the purchase price of the car so far in fuel alone in about a year, so after part exchange I'm around £13k down and 'earning' around £250/month. It's also cost around £200 in servicing, compared to the £4-500 my old car would have cost.

I don't think of cars as an investment, but a current effective 12.5% ROI on the cost of an equivalent new asset or 18-19% ROIC isn't too bad in the current climate. Bearing in mind I was going to change the car anyway when it was bought, it's made up the difference already compared to a mid to high end Focus and after depreciation I'm probably up a bit at this stage.

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

No big surprise - BEV's cost less to run, but more to buy. Will be nice when things go back to normal after Covid, chips, Ukraine, Armageddon tired of this ......

Electric car cost advantage over petrol grows amid energy market turmoil

Driving an electric car for a year costs almost £600 less than its petrol equivalent after fuel prices surged more than electricity costs, research by the comparison website Compare the Market has found.

“As well as helping the environment, these drivers benefit from savings in fuel, insurance, and tax.”

Rising petrol and diesel prices are making electric cars an attractive option for many motorists, and sales have been booming. Industry figures show that in March British drivers bought more of them than in the whole of 2019.

However, they are not an option for everyone. Hasty said: “There is a significant upfront cost of buying an electric car and installing a home charging point which will prevent many drivers from being able to afford this option.”

I'm interested in the BEV running costs and various use models.  Particularly as I've seen a few EV cars locally where there is not at home charging.

Setting aside "free" charging from domestic solar, as that is not the dominant source of power for most homes plus if domestic solar is used it would be appropriate to consider some apportionment of the install cost.

EV with home charge point will be cheaper than ICE for fuel.  How does that compare if using public charge points?  When I looked, it seemed comparable to ICE, but I may have got the assessment wrong.

thevilla

If you genuinely have no home charging possibility then public charging at zero to 50p/kWh and, say 3.5 miles / kWh, is probably approaching parity with fossil fuel.  I haven't bought fossil fuel for a year so may be a bit out of touch though.

There was an interesting program on one of the terrestrial channels a couple of weeks ago showing home charging adaptations for on street charging.  It was interesting. Sorry I can't be more specific.

JKenH

New Green NCAP emissions ratings cast doubt on electric cars’ green credentials

A significant conclusion drawn by Green NCAP is that “while compact and mid-sized BEV show slightly less life cycle GHG emissions than conventional powertrain cars in the context of the European average electricity mix, big and powerful BEVs may be in the same range as most diesel or petrol vehicles”.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/357817/new-green-ncap-emissions-ratings-cast-doubt-electric-cars-green-credentials

Edit: The green cap press release:
https://www.greenncap.com/press-releases/lca-how-sustainable-is-your-car/

michaels

JKenH said:

New Green NCAP emissions ratings cast doubt on electric cars’ green credentials

A significant conclusion drawn by Green NCAP is that “while compact and mid-sized BEV show slightly less life cycle GHG emissions than conventional powertrain cars in the context of the European average electricity mix, big and powerful BEVs may be in the same range as most diesel or petrol vehicles”.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/357817/new-green-ncap-emissions-ratings-cast-doubt-electric-cars-green-credentials

Edit: The green cap press release:
https://www.greenncap.com/press-releases/lca-how-sustainable-is-your-car/

Strange how every study seems to come out with a different result varying by up to 50%

Interesting on this one is that it seems to estimate that producing the non-battery bits of an EV uses much more energy than an ice including the engine.

ABrass

JKenH said:

New Green NCAP emissions ratings cast doubt on electric cars’ green credentials

A significant conclusion drawn by Green NCAP is that “while compact and mid-sized BEV show slightly less life cycle GHG emissions than conventional powertrain cars in the context of the European average electricity mix, big and powerful BEVs may be in the same range as most diesel or petrol vehicles”.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/357817/new-green-ncap-emissions-ratings-cast-doubt-electric-cars-green-credentials

Edit: The green cap press release:
https://www.greenncap.com/press-releases/lca-how-sustainable-is-your-car/

It looks like they've just repeated the same mistakes by the same author.

For example they seem to have estimated the EU grid will have the same carbon intensity for the next 16 years and that battery production hasn't improved since 2014.