Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Martyn1981

Hiya CW, Elon suggested 400Wh per Kg for economic air flight, I believe, and a range of about 500 miles. Then for a further 20% improvement, range would increase to about 1,000 miles.

[Sorry if this is a duplication, I typed it up before, but can't find it ..... must be going mad!]

markin

Who has these best batteries though, Tesla, Panasonic, BYD? How many L per KG?

"PushEVs notes that BYD Blade Battery has a relatively high energy density on the pack level, at up to 150 Wh/kg (see the specs of all-new BYD Yuan), compared to CATL's 126 Wh/kg in the case of batteries supplied to Tesla."

Rumor: BYD To Supply Tesla With 10 GWh Of LFP Batteries

ABrass

LFP is very low power on both per kg and per L. It is cheap, so good for low end EVs and really good for static power.

Apparently the Model S is typically around 250 Wh/l and bespoke refits have used 450Wh/l conversions.

https://electrek.co/2022/01/05/tesla-model-s-752-miles-range-one-energy-dense-battery-pack/

markin

ABrass said:

LFP is very low power on both per kg and per L. It is cheap, so good for low end EVs and really good for static power.

Apparently the Model S is typically around 250 Wh/l and bespoke refits have used 450Wh/l conversions.

https://electrek.co/2022/01/05/tesla-model-s-752-miles-range-one-energy-dense-battery-pack/

  Doubled the KW and almost doubled the range, amazing if its commercially viable.

"energy density to approximately 450 Wh/L and 290 Wh/kg"

Martyn1981

This could be something or nothing. Companies in Texas were able to bid for subsidies (from dieselgate settlements) to build out rapid chargers for EV's. They were allowed to bid for up to 70% of the cost, and so most bid for about $150k per charger, but Tesla only asked for $30k. Tesla won no funding.

Could be that the Tesla superchargers cost a fraction to build and deploy, as they make them themselves, have economies of scale, and are even building prefab units now to truck out to sites?

Or it could just mean Tesla didn't ask for 70% of the cost?

Or, as some are speculating, Tesla realised that they were too late for the first come first served subsidy pot, so went in low, knowing they'd get nothing.

So as I said, could be something (super cheap chargers/install), or nothing.


Tesla’s Supercharger cost revealed to be just one-fifth of the competition in losing home state bid

New documents show that Tesla has a major cost advantage when deploying fast-charging stations as its Superchargers cost just one-fifth of what the average competing charging networks are paying to deploy new stations.

Last year, we reported on the Texas Volkswagen Environmental Mitigation Program (TxVEMP), which is a program that uses the settlement from the Dieselgate scandal to fund projects to help the air quality in Texas, including funding electric vehicle charging stations.

It was interesting because Tesla applied for grants through the program to help fund building what could become the first Superchargers that accept all-electric vehicles in the US, and not just Tesla vehicles.

Now the program has announced the distribution of the grants, and unfortunately for Tesla, it didn’t make the cut and it’s not clear why. Having just moved its headquarters and new factory to the state should have at least levelled the playing field.

NoobSolar

Anyone know much about solid state batteries for EVs? I always thought Ilika aimed to break into this area and that the energy density was supposed to be much better.

ABrass

NoobSolar said:

Anyone know much about solid state batteries for EVs? I always thought Ilika aimed to break into this area and that the energy density was supposed to be much better.

Theres lots of potential but no one is producing them in bulk and I doubt anyone is going to in the next few years at least. It feels like the promise of Nuclear Fusion power, always 20 years away.

Martyn1981

ABrass said:

NoobSolar said:

Anyone know much about solid state batteries for EVs? I always thought Ilika aimed to break into this area and that the energy density was supposed to be much better.

Theres lots of potential but no one is producing them in bulk and I doubt anyone is going to in the next few years at least. It feels like the promise of Nuclear Fusion power, always 20 years away.

Toyota have suggested they might be able to start trialling them in PHEV's in 2025+. But, they gave two reasons for using PHEV's, the first because they are harder on batts so that's a better test, which sounds positive. The second is that PHEV's have smaller batts, so the cost impact will be smaller, which doesn't sound as positive as solid state batts are supposed to be cheaper.

In fairness to Toyota, it may be that in 2025(ish) the batts will still be new and low production, so in later years the cost will come down.

Could be really good timing if solid state batts are viable/economical towards the end of this decade as BEV's approach 100% of sales.

Martyn1981

No big surprise - BEV's cost less to run, but more to buy. Will be nice when things go back to normal after Covid, chips, Ukraine, Armageddon tired of this ......

Electric car cost advantage over petrol grows amid energy market turmoil

Driving an electric car for a year costs almost £600 less than its petrol equivalent after fuel prices surged more than electricity costs, research by the comparison website Compare the Market has found.

“As well as helping the environment, these drivers benefit from savings in fuel, insurance, and tax.”

Rising petrol and diesel prices are making electric cars an attractive option for many motorists, and sales have been booming. Industry figures show that in March British drivers bought more of them than in the whole of 2019.

However, they are not an option for everyone. Hasty said: “There is a significant upfront cost of buying an electric car and installing a home charging point which will prevent many drivers from being able to afford this option.”

gefnew

They will become more expensive to run when the Government bring in new taxation to cover loss of fossil fuel income, eg road pricing, tax on charging points to replace lost revenue etc etc. VAT on charging points will be 20% instead of 5% even at home due to your chargers being networked.