Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

michaels

EricMears said:

Martyn1981 said:

 Maximum range on batteries is at least 80 kilometers, although in testing, prototypes have been able to cover 180 kilometers without running out of battery power. 

No doubt the 80 km allows for setting off from standing whereas once train is up to speed very little power would be required until it goes up a hill or stops & restarts.  I wonder if battery is also regenerated when slowing ?

I think electric trains regen by default into the overhead cables so presumably they also do so into the battery?

JKenH

CHARGEPOINTS FALLS FURTHER BEHIND EV UPTAKE

New analysis by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) has revealed that the ratio of vehicle chargepoints to plug-in cars deteriorated by 31% during 2020.

The research shows that at the end of 2019 there was one public chargepoint for every 11 electric vehicles or hybrids, but by the end of 2020 that ratio had slipped to one in 16.

Britain’s ratio of plug-in vehicles on the road to standard public chargers has deteriorated to become one of the worst among the top 10 global electric vehicle markets at 16:1 in 2020. South Korea (3:1), the Netherlands (5:1), China (9:1), France (10:1), Belgium and Japan (both 13:1) all offer their EV drivers better coverage, although the UK does marginally outperform Germany (17:1).

However, with 4,109 new standard public charge points installed between January and September 2021, compared with 212,181 new plug-in car registrations, just one new standard charger is being installed for every 52 new electric cars.

https://www.bodyshopmag.com/2021/news/chargepoints-falls-further-behind-ev-uptake/

JKenH

Fiat and Vauxhall owner Stellantis warns EV costs will lead to job cuts

Governments and investors want car manufacturers to speed up the transition to electric vehicles, but the costs are “beyond the limits” of what the auto industry can sustain, Tavares said in an interview at the Reuters Next conference released Wednesday.

“What has been decided is to impose on the automotive industry electrification that brings 50% additional costs against a conventional vehicle,” he said.

“There is no way we can transfer 50% of additional costs to the final consumer because most parts of the middle class will not be able to pay.”

Automakers could charge higher prices and sell fewer cars, or accept lower profit margins, Tavares said. Those paths both lead to cutbacks. Union leaders in Europe have warned tens of thousands of jobs could be lost.

https://www.cityam.com/fiat-and-vauxhall-owner-stellantis-warns-ev-costs-will-lead-to-job-cuts/

JKenH

shinytop said:

JKenH said:

After all I have said about CleanTechnica I find myself linking an article from them (well, no one else is going to publish it.) It covers a couple of things, one of which I referred to in an earlier post but the reason for posting is the part about charging. Now when CleanTechnica start moaning about problems with public charging maybe there is a problem. The answer of course is to buy a Tesla (as CleanTechnica point out).

What can you say? This is a truly awful story about a truly awful experience. After a day like that, why would anyone want to drive an EV? Joe Biden is all for having more chargers, but if the damn things don’t work, what’s the point? Stories of non-functioning chargers are legion. Even Herbert Diess, CEO of Volkswagen, took to social media earlier this year to excoriate Ionity for a horrible experience he had at the Swiss/Italy border. It doesn’t matter how much range you have if you can’t find a charger that works.

Thank heaven I’m getting a Tesla. There may be issues that I discover as the miles and months go by, but at least I know my charging experience when away from home will be seamless and convenient. There are millions of words written about the horsepower, torque, range, and acceleration of electric cars. None of them matter if there’s no juice in the battery.

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/11/28/concerns-stream-in-hours-before-receiving-our-tesla-model-y/

Just what is it that makes it so hard to have a publically available electricity supply that charges for energy supplied?  What is it that constantly seems to stop working?  I suspect it's some not-properly-tested software that's trying to be a bit too clever rather than sticking to the basics of measuring what's being supplied and charging the right price.   

The SMMT are now highlighting the  state of the  charging network as something that might put people off electric cars:

Speaking at the 104th SMMT Annual Dinner, SMMT President and Executive Chairman HORIBA MIRA Dr George Gillespie OBE, at the 104th SMMT Annual Dinner said,

We have invested billions in designing some of the most amazing electrified vehicles – over 115 zero emission capable vehicle models are for sale in the UK right now. We have inspired the public to buy these exciting vehicles in numbers never seen before, but here is the twist. It is so frustrating to find broken chargers, blocked chargers, multiple apps, confusing payment schemes. This is quickly going to turn a lot of people off electric vehicles and all our work in developing these fantastic vehicles will be wasted.

The government have declared we can only buy electric cars from 2030, quite a fundamental step to transform the automotive industry. Having taken that decision they should be paying a bit more attention to how we go about charging them. Why not along side the banning of   new ICE cars can’t they take another bold step and mandate that all chargers are simply contactless? Fuel companies don’t demand that we sign up to an app or a subscription to get fuel from their petrol pumps so why do we have to have one to get electricity. Without the right app or card some chargers are inaccessible. 

Just get rid of apps and make all chargers contactless - same price for everyone. 

Put a time limit on charging (say 30 minutes) and automatically debit the credit card for any overstay once the vehicle has finished charging. This will stop people hogging chargers all the way to 100% battery. 

Also make it a legal requirement that chargers are fixed within 24 hours of a fault being reported -just have a central database open to the public that will show the date and time of a fault being reported. Charge the companies £100 a day for every day they are out of service over 24hours. 

If all the government officials responsible for the change over were made to drive electric cars something might get done. 

Martyn1981

Fantastic showing for the cheap (in BEV terms) Dacia Spring in France.

Affordable Dacia Spring Takes Pole As France Hits Record 23.5% Plugin EV Share

The Dacia Spring, following its extremely rapid climb to Europe’s fourth most popular BEV in October, became France’s top seller in November, with 2895 units delivered. This puts it well ahead of the long term favourite Renault Zoe, at 2189 units.

The Spring’s success makes perfect sense — it is the most affordable BEV in Europe, and starts from around €12,400 in France after various incentives. November is the first month it has been available in these volumes in the country.

The Spring’s diminutive size (whilst still seating 4) is ideal both for Europe’s urban areas and narrow rural roads. With 150-180km range on highway, and closer to 280 km in slower urban driving, the Spring has pretty good range for the price point. On a single charge, the Spring can accommodate the average weekly commuting distance in France (~170 km).

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

CHARGEPOINTS FALLS FURTHER BEHIND EV UPTAKE

JKenH said:

The SMMT are now highlighting the  state of the  charging network as something that might put people off electric cars:

Public charging is a current challenge (no pun intended).
  
In my daily walks, there are two bays of three charge-points that I regularly pass. 

One of the bays of three seems to be well-respected in terms of ICE drivers not parking.  Sadly, of three "pillars" (if that is the correct term) at least one is always out of order.

The other batch of three bays is always full of ICE vehicles and the Local Authority says there is nothing they can do as "EV Only" is not, apparently, enforceable.  I do not know what the rules are in this regard.

JKenH said:

Fiat and Vauxhall owner Stellantis warns EV costs will lead to job cuts

Nonsense and scaremongering in the pursuit of large Government grants.

EVs should be simpler and cheaper to build as they are simply less complex and all the components have potential places in other products.  Stellantis group companies (and their competitors) need to "get with it" and embrace the change so that the benefits of scale quickly cascade down.

Changing to simpler product may mean less labour, but that is because of innovation, not because the products are too expensive.

michaels

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

CHARGEPOINTS FALLS FURTHER BEHIND EV UPTAKE

JKenH said:

The SMMT are now highlighting the  state of the  charging network as something that might put people off electric cars:

Public charging is a current challenge (no pun intended).
  
In my daily walks, there are two bays of three charge-points that I regularly pass. 

One of the bays of three seems to be well-respected in terms of ICE drivers not parking.  Sadly, of three "pillars" (if that is the correct term) at least one is always out of order.

The other batch of three bays is always full of ICE vehicles and the Local Authority says there is nothing they can do as "EV Only" is not, apparently, enforceable.  I do not know what the rules are in this regard.

JKenH said:

Fiat and Vauxhall owner Stellantis warns EV costs will lead to job cuts

Nonsense and scaremongering in the pursuit of large Government grants.

EVs should be simpler and cheaper to build as they are simply less complex and all the components have potential places in other products.  Stellantis group companies (and their competitors) need to "get with it" and embrace the change so that the benefits of scale quickly cascade down.

Changing to simpler product may mean less labour, but that is because of innovation, not because the products are too expensive.

They can see the Chinese coming and they have no strategy to respond as it is the Chinese who have the technology lead in BEVs as well as the cost advantage from huge domestic volumes and cheaper labour. Expect the calls for govt help 'to protect jobs' to become increasingly shrill.

Coastalwatch

Battery prices still dropping but appear to be approaching a price beyond which they are unlikely to fall further unless of course further innovations and cheaper materials are introduced as with LFP cells. So getting close to just £1k for an 8 kWh storage pack!

Not unexpectedly prices are lowest in China where scale of manufacture and lower labour costs prevail. Prices in the US being 40% higher and Europe 60%, showing the difficulties facing legacy manufacturers in the western world currently.

In the lower quote Bloomberg go on to say that at around $100 kWh EV's can be price comparative with ICE vehicles but "could hurt the economics of energy storage projects" which I'm finding difficult to understand.

Any thoughts!

Analysis shows battery price drop to $132 per kW/h

Analysts from BloombergNEF saw prices for lithium-ion battery packs fall by a further six per cent in 2021 YoY, to an average of 132 US dollars per kilo Watthour. In the electric vehicle segment, prices were even below the market average.

Accordingly, battery pack prices for an electric car were only 118 dollars, and at the cell level even the 100-dollar mark was undercut: Here, the analysis by BloombergNEF showed 97 US dollars per kilowatt-hour. Converted, that is 116.60 euros/kWh on market average, 104.20 euros/kWh on pack level in an electric car and 85.70 euros/kWh on cell level.

100 dollars/kWh could be reached within two years

Since, according to BloombergNEF, “around this price point” carmakers will be able to manufacture and sell electric cars at the same margins for the same price as internal combustion engine vehicles, the price around $100/kWh takes on special significance. Or as BloombergNEF puts it: “This would impact EV affordability or manufacturers’ margins and could hurt the economics of energy storage projects.”

https://www.electrive.com/2021/12/01/analysis-shows-battery-price-drop-to-132-per-kw-h/

Martyn1981

Have to admit that when I first read this headline my excitement quickly turned to disappointment when I assumed that '1470' was a model name, but no, it's actually a lovely big order number. Bobbie Llewellyn of Fully Charged did an episode sometime back on this vehicle.

[Short article so worth reading it all.]

Volta Books Order For 1470 Electric Trucks From DB Schenker

DB Schenker is a big noise in logistics and shipping. It has more than 74,200 people working at 2,100 locations in over 130 countries around the world. It has just placed an order for 1,470 fully electric trucks manufactured by Volta. It will be the first company to use prototypes of the Volta Zero starting in the spring of next year. The lessons learned from that testing will be incorporated into the production versions of those 1,470 trucks, which will be used at 10 locations in five countries, according to CarScoops.

CKhalvashi

Coastalwatch said:

Battery prices still dropping but appear to be approaching a price beyond which they are unlikely to fall further unless of course further innovations and cheaper materials are introduced as with LFP cells. So getting close to just £1k for an 8 kWh storage pack!

Not unexpectedly prices are lowest in China where scale of manufacture and lower labour costs prevail. Prices in the US being 40% higher and Europe 60%, showing the difficulties facing legacy manufacturers in the western world currently.

In the lower quote Bloomberg go on to say that at around $100 kWh EV's can be price comparative with ICE vehicles but "could hurt the economics of energy storage projects" which I'm finding difficult to understand.

Any thoughts!

Analysis shows battery price drop to $132 per kW/h

Analysts from BloombergNEF saw prices for lithium-ion battery packs fall by a further six per cent in 2021 YoY, to an average of 132 US dollars per kilo Watthour. In the electric vehicle segment, prices were even below the market average.

Accordingly, battery pack prices for an electric car were only 118 dollars, and at the cell level even the 100-dollar mark was undercut: Here, the analysis by BloombergNEF showed 97 US dollars per kilowatt-hour. Converted, that is 116.60 euros/kWh on market average, 104.20 euros/kWh on pack level in an electric car and 85.70 euros/kWh on cell level.

100 dollars/kWh could be reached within two years

Since, according to BloombergNEF, “around this price point” carmakers will be able to manufacture and sell electric cars at the same margins for the same price as internal combustion engine vehicles, the price around $100/kWh takes on special significance. Or as BloombergNEF puts it: “This would impact EV affordability or manufacturers’ margins and could hurt the economics of energy storage projects.”

https://www.electrive.com/2021/12/01/analysis-shows-battery-price-drop-to-132-per-kw-h/

A quick look on Alibaba shows a 10kWh storage battery from around $1600 ex-factory and a 2mWh container pack for around $500k (with a lot of extra engineering of course).

There likely is some give in these prices, but I don't think there will be that much issue at $1600-ish for domestic use.

Naturally I don't know what any import duties may be, but pre-electric car this would have stored about 4 days of electricity for us, so even doubling the price would have been almost off-grid in the past. The Ioniq hasn't been charged for the last 4 days (and has only done around 9 miles in this time due to WFH), so perfectly achievable most days with an EV also right now.