Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

shinytop

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

I'm genuinely baffled by the issue here about not being able to charge the BEV enough overnight. Average daily drive in the UK is about 22 miles, so overnight you can charge for a week's worth of driving.

If you are planning a long trip, then you just add more over two nights.

If you are driving very long distances every day, and can't fully charge overnight, then you'd be using the ultrafast public chargers on your journey (which reasonably, must be involving motorways).

I'm not convinced that having 100kWh battery is a good idea, unless you are using (and more importantly needing) that kind of continuous range frequently. It's additional expense and weight, when a ~50kWh and ~200mile range is reasonable. [Caveat - with a good and reliable charging infrastructure, which I appreciate is not yet the case in the UK. But if you were driving around ~50k miles pa, then the current solution would be the Tesla Supercharger network.]

I agree with you, but this train of discussion followed on from the linked article that Tesla / Panasonic are going to launch a new battery five times the capacity of current, so 500 kWh or 2k miles range.

That then lead to the comment that a 14-hour charge at 7 kW allows you to charge 100 kWh overnight, which is about the capacity of the largest batteries currently and, at 4 miles / kWh, is 400 mile range.  Ample.

So, no need for the higher capacity battery for your EV car.  The investment needs to be making the 100 kWh battery  more compact and lighter plus increasing the efficiency of "plug to road" so that the range of 100 kWh is as much as it can be.

I agree with this.  Big batteries, in general, mean big and expensive cars.  Once we start seeing Corsa/Fiesta sized and priced cars with a real 300 mile range then I think general public opinion will really start to move to EVs.  Even these people might be convinced:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10146089/Daily-Mail-poll-shows-strong-support-PMs-bid-curb-climate-change-public-fears-Cop26-flop.html

2nd_time_buyer

Martyn1981 said:

2nd_time_buyer said:

Has anyone got an MG5? It seems to tick a lot of the boxes for me in terms of space, range and cost. Is there any other cars I should be looking for at that kind of price? 

Edit: just realized, this is probably in the wrong place in the forum. Apologies if so.

My personal thought is that it's a great package. Wifey and I had planned to sell our Ioniq BEV and get one through her work's salary sacrifice scheme, but the deal wasn't as good as we'd hoped. The Ioniq (and Tesla 3) give excellent efficiency, but their low drag roofline means they aren't the best vehicles for carrying a lot of bulky/awkward stuff ..... or dogo's.

Don't hold me to this (or blame me) but the Chinese are starting to get a good reputation for BEV building, especially on a value for money basis.

Sorry for the backtrack

The MG5 is looking perfect - thanks for the feedback.

My employer is planning on a salary sacrifice scheme for EVs to start in the next few months.

As I understand it, it is only for leasing not buying outright, is that right? I have always been a disciple of banger-nomics - buying cheap and running into the ground. So getting a new car is alien to me, as is leasing. So I am wondering whether it is better to get it through the scheme or buy outright?

As a basic rate tax payer, is leasing a car on salary sacrifice generally considered a good deal? My main concern would be, what happens if it picks up the odd dent or scuff during the leasehold period.

Martyn1981

2nd_time_buyer said:

Martyn1981 said:

2nd_time_buyer said:

Has anyone got an MG5? It seems to tick a lot of the boxes for me in terms of space, range and cost. Is there any other cars I should be looking for at that kind of price? 

Edit: just realized, this is probably in the wrong place in the forum. Apologies if so.

My personal thought is that it's a great package. Wifey and I had planned to sell our Ioniq BEV and get one through her work's salary sacrifice scheme, but the deal wasn't as good as we'd hoped. The Ioniq (and Tesla 3) give excellent efficiency, but their low drag roofline means they aren't the best vehicles for carrying a lot of bulky/awkward stuff ..... or dogo's.

Don't hold me to this (or blame me) but the Chinese are starting to get a good reputation for BEV building, especially on a value for money basis.

Sorry for the backtrack

The MG5 is looking perfect - thanks for the feedback.

My employer is planning on a salary sacrifice scheme for EVs to start in the next few months.

As I understand it, it is only for leasing not buying outright, is that right? I have always been a disciple of banger-nomics - buying cheap and running into the ground. So getting a new car is alien to me, as is leasing. So I am wondering whether it is better to get it through the scheme or buy outright?

As a basic rate tax payer, is leasing a car on salary sacrifice generally considered a good deal? My main concern would be, what happens if it picks up the odd dent or scuff during the leasehold period.

Hiya, others will be able to advise on leasing better than me, as like you I've never been down that street.

For us we were quite excited at the 'from £200' monthly cost of the MG5, but when Wifey submitted an application for a quote it went up to ~£300, I guess she doesn't pay enough tax, ironically.

I won't knock a good all in monthly lease, as these included everything but the leccy cost (even tyre wear), but you'll need to do 'the maths' for yourself. But the more I looked at it, I started to think that £300pm might be better as a 'real' lease, or even as a low rate loan payment, since MG seem to haggle down to very good prices.

So look at all the options, then have a think, maybe a chat on here, as some of the posters seem expert at finding deals.

You might even want to consider Onto who do short term leases (from 1 month) to try out a car and see what you like, or don't, before taking the plunge.

I'd also recommend joining an owners group online, and getting advice from the horses mouth. So far BEV's are new enough that everyone seems to want to help and share advice. We did this before buying the Ioniq secondhand, as we simply couldn't believe the range estimate (130miles+) from a 28kWh battery, but all the advice came back supportive, and tbf, the car has delivered as promised.

2nd_time_buyer

Thank you Martyn. Very informative.

It feels that it should be a no brainer to go SS. However, from the sound of it, it is not necessarily so. Which implies that someone else in the chain is getting a great deal. 

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

You might even want to consider Onto who do short term leases (from 1 month) to try out a car and see what you like, or don't, before taking the plunge.

I have seen various times that there have been suggestions to take a short-term EV to trial the concept and assess the extent to which it "works" with the individual's car use profile.

I have always failed to understand how this is proven (either way) without having home charging installed.

I note the Onto scheme linked includes free public charging but is there a possibility that only serves to prove the "unsuitability" of an EV?

The idea of an EV and having to use public charge-points (with no home charging alternative) would fill me with dread.

EricMears

shinytop said:

Yes, fair point.  Not having an EV,  I'm used to letting batteries go flat, then recharging.  It does need a certain amount of forward planning and unforeseen trips aren't unknown.  I could live with it though. 

I don't think that's even a good way of optimising battery life for a mobile phone or rechargeable torch !  It would be devastating running a BEV that way.

Petriix

MG offer heavy discounts on the 'cash' price, but leasing and finance options are not anywhere near as good; simply because the predicted residual values are lower than for other manufacturers.

In practice my MG5 is apparently worth just £1000 less than I paid for it, brand new, 10 months ago. How strong the future value is remains to be seen.

Grumpy_chap

EricMears said:

shinytop said:

Yes, fair point.  Not having an EV,  I'm used to letting batteries go flat, then recharging.  It does need a certain amount of forward planning and unforeseen trips aren't unknown.  I could live with it though. 

I don't think that's even a good way of optimising battery life for a mobile phone or rechargeable torch !  It would be devastating running a BEV that way.

We were always told that the mobile phone battery must be fully discharged and then charged to avoid the battery getting a memory that it only had a small cycle.  Indeed, many phones even had a discharge function to activate to flatten the battery before plugging in.

EricMears

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

You might even want to consider Onto who do short term leases (from 1 month) to try out a car and see what you like, or don't, before taking the plunge.

I have seen various times that there have been suggestions to take a short-term EV to trial the concept and assess the extent to which it "works" with the individual's car use profile.

I have always failed to understand how this is proven (either way) without having home charging installed.

I note the Onto scheme linked includes free public charging but is there a possibility that only serves to prove the "unsuitability" of an EV?

The idea of an EV and having to use public charge-points (with no home charging alternative) would fill me with dread.

I agree that it wouldn't help much to assess the cost advantages (or disadvantages) of BEV driving but you could easily add 8 hours @2.4 kW  (almost 20kWh or around 70+ miles of range) from a 'granny lead' overnight and consider it should cost the same as 3 hrs at 7kW  or buy 50mins from a rapid charger and consider that could have been done in 6hrs @ 7kWh at home (and adding around 150 miles of range).  Doing both should allow you to drive 200 miles to give you a good idea of how it feels and although it's probably fairly costly you ought to be able to calculate what it might cost if you had a fast charger at home.

EricMears

Grumpy_chap said:

We were always told that the mobile phone battery must be fully discharged and then charged to avoid the battery getting a memory that it only had a small cycle.  Indeed, many phones even had a discharge function to activate to flatten the battery before plugging in.

Probably true for really old phones with a NiCad battery  but Lithium cells have long since displaced them.