Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Solarchaser

shinytop said:

EVandPV said:

Solarchaser said:

I think the thing that's throwing you is the idea of waiting until its completely empty before you plug in, whereas the reality is that you would be topping up each night.

Exactly.
Just as most folk top up there mobile phone or tablet every night.
You quickly get into the habit of topping up and ev well before you hit empty.

But my phone runs out during the day if I use it a lot.  Then I've got to find an empty socket to plug it in and wait and have a cup of tea while it charges up.  I could buy a new iPhone, but they are expensive and the only way I can afford one is to take out an expensive credit agreement.  They are also quite big and bulky and have lots of features I don't really want.   

You sound like my wife lol.
Eventually got her to part with her old iPhone se as she was having to charge it up 3 times a day.

You could just get an older phone second hand, or buy a new phone that's not an iPhone.

Alternatively carry about a battery bank to top up with

QrizB

Grumpy_chap said:

EVandPV said:

New Toyota bZ4x revealed as brand’s first bespoke electric car

After decades of experience with hybrid cars, Toyota has finally branched out into fully electric vehicles. Called the Toyota bZ4x, the SUV is the Japanese brand’s first bespoke electric car.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/toyota/353801/new-toyota-bz4x-revealed-brands-first-bespoke-electric-car?amp

That article mentions "an optional 11kW AC charger in the future will help overnight home recharges for those with a compatible wallbox."
How will a domestic supply support 11 kW?  I am not expecting the UK domestic infrastructure to be switched whole-sale to three phase in my lifetime.

Exactly the same way it supports a 10.8kW electric shower? 11kW is less than 50A of single-phase 230VAC.

Grumpy_chap

shinytop said:

But my phone runs out during the day if I use it a lot.  Then I've got to find an empty socket to plug it in and wait and have a cup of tea while it charges up.  I could buy a new iPhone, but they are expensive and the only way I can afford one is to take out an expensive credit agreement.  They are also quite big and bulky and have lots of features I don't really want.   

We have Moto G Series phones - they retail at under £150 (last month there was an offer so my wife upgraded at £99.99) and the battery life is measured in days.

QrizB said:

Exactly the same way it supports a 10.8kW electric shower? 11kW is less than 50A of single-phase 230VAC.

That's a lot for a shower.

Domestic single phase circuits can only provide 32 Amp, which is where the 7.4 kW car charger comes from.  Can't get 11kW in my house.
https://www.spiritenergy.co.uk/kb-ev-understanding-electric-car-charging

JKenH

Solarchaser said:

shinytop said:

EVandPV said:

Solarchaser said:

I think the thing that's throwing you is the idea of waiting until its completely empty before you plug in, whereas the reality is that you would be topping up each night.

Exactly.
Just as most folk top up there mobile phone or tablet every night.
You quickly get into the habit of topping up and ev well before you hit empty.

But my phone runs out during the day if I use it a lot.  Then I've got to find an empty socket to plug it in and wait and have a cup of tea while it charges up.  I could buy a new iPhone, but they are expensive and the only way I can afford one is to take out an expensive credit agreement.  They are also quite big and bulky and have lots of features I don't really want.   

You sound like my wife lol.
Eventually got her to part with her old iPhone se as she was having to charge it up 3 times a day.

You could just get an older phone second hand, or buy a new phone that's not an iPhone.

Alternatively carry about a battery bank to top up with

Or get a new battery. I am on my third on my 2017 iPhone SE. First replacement (after 2 years) cost £30 and second one, a couple of months ago £39 (both fitted in 45 mins while shopping). About 1/20th the cost of a new iPhone. Now, if only EV batteries were that cheap.

Verdigris

How will a domestic supply support 11 kW?

You can export up to 17kW on a single phase G99 connection. Therefore you can import that.

QrizB

Grumpy_chap said:

QrizB said:

Exactly the same way it supports a 10.8kW electric shower? 11kW is less than 50A of single-phase 230VAC.

That's a lot for a shower.

Domestic single phase circuits can only provide 32 Amp, which is where the 7.4 kW car charger comes from.  Can't get 11kW in my house.
https://www.spiritenergy.co.uk/kb-ev-understanding-electric-car-charging

It's a lot for a shower, but it's a standard bit of domestic electrical equipment.

If you can have a 50A shower, it's clearly not true to claim that "Domestic single phase circuits can only provide 32 amp".

Some electric cookers need more than that, if you need more examples.

ABrass

QrizB said:

Grumpy_chap said:

QrizB said:

Exactly the same way it supports a 10.8kW electric shower? 11kW is less than 50A of single-phase 230VAC.

That's a lot for a shower.

Domestic single phase circuits can only provide 32 Amp, which is where the 7.4 kW car charger comes from.  Can't get 11kW in my house.
https://www.spiritenergy.co.uk/kb-ev-understanding-electric-car-charging

It's a lot for a shower, but it's a standard bit of domestic electrical equipment.

If you can have a 50A shower, it's clearly not true to claim that "Domestic single phase circuits can only provide 32 amp".

Some electric cookers need more than that, if you need more examples.

Yeah, you can get 40A out of a consumer unit. My cooker is rated for 11kW. You can find 40A chargers as well, although they're more expensive. The problem is no one needs it.

If you think about it it's obvious, if you need to charge a battery then the difference in time between a 7kW charger and an 11kW charger is a one third reduction in time, that's not much when you factor in time spent asleep. For you to get any benefit out of it you have to need to charge your battery faster than a 7kW charger can do it, but you're not in enough of a rush to need a 250kW charger.

If you have 12 hours down time for charging then you can essentially fill a 100kWh battery every day on 7kW. That's at least 200 miles, more like 300+. You need to use huge amounts of power and have slightly restricted charging time for the 11kW to have a  advantage. 

EVandPV

QrizB said:

Grumpy_chap said:

QrizB said:

Exactly the same way it supports a 10.8kW electric shower? 11kW is less than 50A of single-phase 230VAC.

That's a lot for a shower.

Domestic single phase circuits can only provide 32 Amp, which is where the 7.4 kW car charger comes from.  Can't get 11kW in my house.
https://www.spiritenergy.co.uk/kb-ev-understanding-electric-car-charging

It's a lot for a shower, but it's a standard bit of domestic electrical equipment.

If you can have a 50A shower, it's clearly not true to claim that "Domestic single phase circuits can only provide 32 amp".

Some electric cookers need more than that, if you need more examples.

Indeed, modern homes have a 60-100 amp fuse these days.

Petriix

ABrass said:

QrizB said:

Grumpy_chap said:

QrizB said:

Exactly the same way it supports a 10.8kW electric shower? 11kW is less than 50A of single-phase 230VAC.

That's a lot for a shower.

Domestic single phase circuits can only provide 32 Amp, which is where the 7.4 kW car charger comes from.  Can't get 11kW in my house.
https://www.spiritenergy.co.uk/kb-ev-understanding-electric-car-charging

It's a lot for a shower, but it's a standard bit of domestic electrical equipment.

If you can have a 50A shower, it's clearly not true to claim that "Domestic single phase circuits can only provide 32 amp".

Some electric cookers need more than that, if you need more examples.

Yeah, you can get 40A out of a consumer unit. My cooker is rated for 11kW. You can find 40A chargers as well, although they're more expensive. The problem is no one needs it.

If you think about it it's obvious, if you need to charge a battery then the difference in time between a 7kW charger and an 11kW charger is a one third reduction in time, that's not much when you factor in time spent asleep. For you to get any benefit out of it you have to need to charge your battery faster than a 7kW charger can do it, but you're not in enough of a rush to need a 250kW charger.

If you have 12 hours down time for charging then you can essentially fill a 100kWh battery every day on 7kW. That's at least 200 miles, more like 300+. You need to use huge amounts of power and have slightly restricted charging time for the 11kW to have a  advantage. 

11kW charging is 3 phases at 3.6kW each. 

At 7kW, 100kWh (in your example) would take over 14 hours. At 11kW it's just over 9 hours. It's conceivable that someone might drive 250 miles each day and only have 8 hours at home. 

EricMears

Grumpy_chap said:

Domestic single phase circuits can only provide 32 Amp, which is where the 7.4 kW car charger comes from.  Can't get 11kW in my house.

The limit for a house's total 'draw' is whatever the rating of the "board's fuse" is.  100A in my case.

The limit for a single circuit is whatever the rating of the individual circuit breaker is and of course the size of conductor used..  My biggest is 40A but the Screwfix catalogue lists up to 50A for MK CUs or 63A for a couple of other brands.  My charger outlet uses 6 sq mm cable which should take up to 40A but if it was a very long run or I wanted  a bigger current I might have uprated that to 10sq mm or even higher