Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Martyn1981

JKenH said:

Martyn1981 said:

No surprises, but hopefully PHEV's will help encourage drivers and manufacturers to switch to BEV's sooner than they might have, especially whilst BEV's are supply constrained..

Plug-in hybrid cars burn more fuel than tests record, says Which?

Plug-in hybrid cars burn significantly more fuel than official tests record, according to research that suggests pollution from the vehicles could be much worse than advertised.

Tests of plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) by Which?, the UK consumer group, found that some popular cars achieved as little as a third of the fuel economy advertised in official tests.

PHEVs accounted for 58% of all rechargeable cars sold in the biggest 18 western European markets in January, according to data from Matthias !!!!!!, a Berlin-based electric car analyst. Plug-in hybrids will remain popular over traditional internal combustion cars because of tax and subsidy advantages, he said.

Edit: I should add that the ICE component does have advantages over batteries at high speed  

Funny coincidence, yesterday I was driving on the motorway, and I thought - 'what would make this car better, is an internal combustion engine', then my next thought was 'I wonder if I should be driving so soon after being kicked in the head by a horse?'

silverwhistle

JKenH said:

As far as my quoting the China example, it is to demonstrate that there is another side to the coin. www.

As for your argument “I'm pretty sure the cars EVs replace won't be scrapped” then just what contribution to the environment has your purchase of an EV actually made. Were you in the market for a new car anyway?  t is nice to know it’s free but we shouldn’t kid ourselves there is actually any environmental benefit. 

/SNIP/. As an example was I the only one who could see something patently incorrect with the claim in the article “A calculation of the resources used to make cars relative to their weight shows it is at least 300 times greater for oil-fuelled cars”?  Did nobody give it a second thought or do people accept that because it is a pro EV comment it is immune to criticism? 

As I have responded to you taking me to task for referencing China perhaps you will do me the courtesy of letting me have your thoughts on that claim (highlighted with bold italics in the paragraph above) in the article, that I felt seemed so unlikely to be true,.

I did presume she must have a 'spiky' driving profile! I've not had to use a rapid charger yet under our current covid regime, but you have to admit it's sad if range anxiety even extends to 2k miles a year, and why replace it at all is a reasonable question particularly if you have another car in the household.

It's all very well talking about China as the other side of the coin, but you are using that example as an argument against EVs. I think their widespread adoption of electric buses in urban contexts is admirable. The building of new coal plant has been accompanied by the closure of old and inefficient plant, but simply conflating their need for more power with the expansion of EVs is taking the argument too far. 

As for my own purchase of an EV (a Chinese EV at that!)- well, there I feel guilty. I normally keep my nondescript tin boxes until around 12 years old and I disposed of this one at 11.. All over the world people often replace their cars at 4 years old which is the earliest I have bought one. Of course it's better that those cars should be electric, and I'm not going to rehearse those arguments again.  I'll be keeping this one a long time and have no idea of payback any more than I do of a new kitchen or the replacement lintel I recently had installed. It's the first time in my life when such a purchase has been anything other than purely functional at minimum cost.

As for the text in bold, the figures were so far out I just assumed it was a typo and referring to life-time cost: unfortunately it's only a few newspapers these days who employ fact checkers or sub-editors. I think I may have tutted, not jumped on the mistake with great relish.

JKenH

silverwhistle said:

JKenH said:

As far as my quoting the China example, it is to demonstrate that there is another side to the coin. www.

As for your argument “I'm pretty sure the cars EVs replace won't be scrapped” then just what contribution to the environment has your purchase of an EV actually made. Were you in the market for a new car anyway?  t is nice to know it’s free but we shouldn’t kid ourselves there is actually any environmental benefit. 

/SNIP/. As an example was I the only one who could see something patently incorrect with the claim in the article “A calculation of the resources used to make cars relative to their weight shows it is at least 300 times greater for oil-fuelled cars”?  Did nobody give it a second thought or do people accept that because it is a pro EV comment it is immune to criticism? 

As I have responded to you taking me to task for referencing China perhaps you will do me the courtesy of letting me have your thoughts on that claim (highlighted with bold italics in the paragraph above) in the article, that I felt seemed so unlikely to be true,.

I did presume she must have a 'spiky' driving profile! I've not had to use a rapid charger yet under our current covid regime, but you have to admit it's sad if range anxiety even extends to 2k miles a year, and why replace it at all is a reasonable question particularly if you have another car in the household.

It's all very well talking about China as the other side of the coin, but you are using that example as an argument against EVs. I think their widespread adoption of electric buses in urban contexts is admirable. The building of new coal plant has been accompanied by the closure of old and inefficient plant, but simply conflating their need for more power with the expansion of EVs is taking the argument too far. 

As for my own purchase of an EV (a Chinese EV at that!)- well, there I feel guilty. I normally keep my nondescript tin boxes until around 12 years old and I disposed of this one at 11.. All over the world people often replace their cars at 4 years old which is the earliest I have bought one. Of course it's better that those cars should be electric, and I'm not going to rehearse those arguments again.  I'll be keeping this one a long time and have no idea of payback any more than I do of a new kitchen or the replacement lintel I recently had installed. It's the first time in my life when such a purchase has been anything other than purely functional at minimum cost.

As for the text in bold, the figures were so far out I just assumed it was a typo and referring to life-time cost: unfortunately it's only a few newspapers these days who employ fact checkers or sub-editors. I think I may have tutted, not jumped on the mistake with great relish.

Thanks for your reply. I won’t drag this out but just wanted to correct your comment that I was conflating the need for more power in China with EVs. That’s not at all what I was saying. My point is in some provinces of China their grid is so dirty that driving an EV is going to put a lot more CO2 into the air than a modern ICE engine. See graph below of predictions for China’s grid intensity for 2020. 

I apologise for the length of the link for the source of the graph below but I included it as it also explains the difficulty China is facing in bringing down the carbon intensity of its grid.

https://pdf.sciencedirectassets.com/277910/1-s2.0-S1876610217X00398/1-s2.0-S1876610217361714/main.pdf?X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEKb%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCXVzLWVhc3QtMSJHMEUCIA7pBwQVC7LWnsWJ6JNKMINvTqbVGNWS%2FZV%2BM3%2FjR0%2BhAiEAsme8%2BQTuxDnYUNiXRGf1hfnof78SdYRA8lqPKJzRNjQqvQMIv%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FARADGgwwNTkwMDM1NDY4NjUiDI7KFaVHQ2mMwoh1SyqRA4B%2B%2B9zcuccNPWXyfYd3SbtmKRxkSEKANC1m4HFdqOskXpaHlCGhhqex0Yn8s%2FmvmpLyc7JV%2F2AzL8VeImdZiqNO7Hs1tISLukxGRGx%2Bpi2RyTQrl6ji5hG04NS41dKfBjN9vQPcuPO4fKtv%2BJJ9DH%2BnNzDP1BI5dSc6cIkiPSQycVQhWJWyuYhHsFFaBuhZ9%2FQiRuIdAWF9Aq1tkWsaZ1PmR2ocFB1gSu35lbZVrZm3Xlxxgndda4HkuJiqvyZKvqfzpzWqtKoge%2Bhjv7UYn4wnMxXeBZaJ%2FWwR1d%2Bt8kluPcnEW9EPc4e4aoaBS%2FFBBpHvvSo3f16QKBgsuVSPSVI%2BpmTZy4D92%2Frfw66JQ6qT477rU2yoq6HBVedjOmZe8%2Fxv2sB9s5VaYGXf0hHaaMjEOqHZOmoN5E%2FHe4IfeKbDojzLPA20swvo2SgDfc1vCGrKAoOPa7ihl5tOA179KYkygFY2CwYtTcZu18FLxs2Sbk61K9V%2FLpJcJqf8puF7UygP0W1%2BjjkZjm3r9xE58EvQMIme%2FoEGOusBS6%2Fm87UdbYa6YXUm8dCEHAgskrpcAqpFg2Fo4kHkpTLx%2F33bGICqKijECbxpJZ2cQAECFGKEVyULBXHtDYuRp0WS%2Frx%2FG8dAwhIC9Cf9dRDtjqbmD5Z%2BAvsYjNRyOTnMlzU45BiLHIUHU8z4TknBkf55A4yQiTM9AoHiw%2BuoegGxrSOYei4O1%2BCbayV6aJOeDqSUlYr%2BLyqqeG6G7MDZVaX0cnayLsEJnLDrSbRpP5mBFR6bGs11V%2FkAnIQj4JjkDX1F98HVmi6p1YUk5XA%2BYlXirrhsWc2VIaVy2YJT%2B3No4FW3cl%2BVV1PGHQ%3D%3D&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20210303T143131Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAQ3PHCVTY23BQX35D%2F20210303%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=52724b03af41402cbca030a344c25a61f5976d04ba81f0f88b6976054478e9bd&hash=a87a9f69b9654d3f84af0ab9615c46a0d58c92e9c675ef3b2797508e084bf979&host=68042c943591013ac2b2430a89b270f6af2c76d8dfd086a07176afe7c76c2c61&pii=S1876610217361714&tid=spdf-ae1647b2-de65-40e3-adc2-37bdc93e0c12&sid=1a8f3bb61a1e924ba81b69d18b2160ee3511gxrqb&type=client

Also, just for clarification as far as payback was concerned, I was actually asking when the CO2 used in building the car and battery would be repaid by savings in usage of the car, rather than when the financial cost of the car to you would be repaid. 

JKenH

Martyn1981 said:

JKenH said:

Martyn1981 said:

No surprises, but hopefully PHEV's will help encourage drivers and manufacturers to switch to BEV's sooner than they might have, especially whilst BEV's are supply constrained..

Plug-in hybrid cars burn more fuel than tests record, says Which?

Plug-in hybrid cars burn significantly more fuel than official tests record, according to research that suggests pollution from the vehicles could be much worse than advertised.

Tests of plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) by Which?, the UK consumer group, found that some popular cars achieved as little as a third of the fuel economy advertised in official tests.

PHEVs accounted for 58% of all rechargeable cars sold in the biggest 18 western European markets in January, according to data from Matthias !!!!!!, a Berlin-based electric car analyst. Plug-in hybrids will remain popular over traditional internal combustion cars because of tax and subsidy advantages, he said.

Edit: I should add that the ICE component does have advantages over batteries at high speed  

Funny coincidence, yesterday I was driving on the motorway, and I thought - 'what would make this car better, is an internal combustion engine', then my next thought was 'I wonder if I should be driving so soon after being kicked in the head by a horse?'

It must have been a Mustang 😉

Hexane

Martyn1981 said:

JKenH said:

Martyn1981 said:

No surprises, but hopefully PHEV's will help encourage drivers and manufacturers to switch to BEV's sooner than they might have, especially whilst BEV's are supply constrained..

Plug-in hybrid cars burn more fuel than tests record, says Which?

Plug-in hybrid cars burn significantly more fuel than official tests record, according to research that suggests pollution from the vehicles could be much worse than advertised.

Tests of plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) by Which?, the UK consumer group, found that some popular cars achieved as little as a third of the fuel economy advertised in official tests.

PHEVs accounted for 58% of all rechargeable cars sold in the biggest 18 western European markets in January, according to data from Matthias !!!!!!, a Berlin-based electric car analyst. Plug-in hybrids will remain popular over traditional internal combustion cars because of tax and subsidy advantages, he said.

Edit: I should add that the ICE component does have advantages over batteries at high speed  

Funny coincidence, yesterday I was driving on the motorway, and I thought - 'what would make this car better, is an internal combustion engine', then my next thought was 'I wonder if I should be driving so soon after being kicked in the head by a horse?'

Was it a quick visit to Barnard Castle to check that the injury hadn't affected your eyesight?

JKenH

Tesla FSD Beta’s public rollout gets an expected release date

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-beta-public-release-date/

JKenH

First Glasgow, Alexander Dennis and BYD UK to deliver £9m fleet of 22 new electric vehicles to city in time for UN’s COP26 conference

https://www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/19131460.first-glasgow-alexander-dennis-byd-uk-deliver-9m-fleet-22-new-electric-vehicles-city-time-uns-cop26-conference/

JKenH

Sandy Munro takes a bold stance on hydrogen fuel cell EVs

https://youtu.be/Q2G8v2mUA-0

JKenH

You could soon charge an electric car in the time it takes to fill a tank of gas thanks to a startup partnering with Uber

https://www.businessinsider.com/fast-charging-electric-car-charging-network-ample-startup-fast-as-gas-2021-3

JKenH

Big boost for EV drivers as UK’s largest public rapid charge hubs opens on M6 in Midlands

Eight northbound and seven southbound at Corley on the M6 will help but we still need to be thinking bigger. At least they are Instavolt. (Ok, they’re expensive, but generally reliable and easy to use without an app.)

https://www.retailtimes.co.uk/big-boost-for-ev-drivers-as-uks-largest-public-rapid-charge-hubs-opens-on-m6-in-midlands/