Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Martyn1981

This is great news, and I admit that it hadn't occurred to me to compare EV sales to diesel sales in the monthly stats, so a nice slap of reality across my face. Though tbf I'm not entirely sure if the 25% figure is for EV's or PEV's, I assume it was EV's, but the graphic suggests PEV's.

Europeans Bought More Electrified Vehicles Than Diesels In September — For The First Time In History

In Europe, people bought more electrified vehicles — electric vehicles and hybrids — than diesel vehicles in September, according to JATO Dynamics. This is a first. The pandemic has already left jagged scars on the automotive industry as well as other industries across the globe.
JATO noted that new car sales dropped by 29% during the first 9 months of 2020 in Europe. The largest hit, however, was taken by vehicles with diesel, which made up 24.8% of market share last month. If you compare the market share data for diesel in 2020 versus 2010, vehicles with diesel made up 50% of the total registrations back then, twice as much.

Not only does the future belong to them, but they have a good eye for cars too!

Kids Get Parents To Buy Electric Cars

According to Peugeot, “more than half of children surveyed in Britain want their parents to be more environmentally friendly, including switching to electric or plug-in HYBRID vehicles.” And these are seriously kids, not young adults — 7–12 years old. 1,235 such children were surveyed.
“More than two-thirds of children in the study said they have started caring more for the environment in recent years, with 67.8% of all children believing electric and plug-in vehicles are good for the planet. More than half of the parents taking part (55.3%) said their children would like them to own an electric car going forward.”

EricMears

Martyn1981 said:

 most BEV drivers would choose at least some regen most of the time. 

I suspect that "most BEV drivers" have probably been brainwashed into thinking that regen is  'A Good Thing'   so more regen  must be better.

Those of us familiar with the Second Law of Thermodynamics realise that's not always true.

JKenH

EricMears said:

Martyn1981 said:

You say that slowing down by rolling is more efficient than regen, and yes that's completely true, so your mistake in both posts is somehow to assume that driving the TM3 in standard regen rather than low regen means it uses regen unnecessarily ....... but of course that's entirely false, if you lift off the power you will have no regen, then low regen, then high regen, it won't regen for no reason, that's simply down to the one pedal driving technique.

My criticism of unwanted regen is based entirely on several years of Leaf ownership where there is no possibility of getting zero regen.  

Unless you engage neutral, which is why I wondered if you had ever tried it.

EricMears

JKenH said:

Unless you engage neutral, which is why I wondered if you had ever tried it.

Tried it occasionally but really not happy doing it.  You shouldn't need to try that sort of thing to overcome deficiencies in a car's software !

Martyn1981

EricMears said:

Martyn1981 said:

 most BEV drivers would choose at least some regen most of the time. 

I suspect that "most BEV drivers" have probably been brainwashed into thinking that regen is  'A Good Thing'   so more regen  must be better.

Those of us familiar with the Second Law of Thermodynamics realise that's not always true.

Again, I think you've misunderstood what has happened here, almost like a double negative. Tesla hasn't removed low regen, it's still there (within standard regen), they've simply removed the option not to have high (standard) regen on full lift off.
So, nothing has been imposed regarding no to low regen, it's still there for your foot to choose and use.
Regarding the Second Law of Thermodynamics, that seems irrelevant unless you are suggesting that no regen on the GO pedal is the best option, and you may believe that, that also fits with Ken's suggestion of using neutral.
But personally, I find higher levels of regen, where there is a choice, preferable, and certainly have no wish for zero regen*, which is the only situation/choice which would seem to fit your argument/desires. But I may be wrong, and most people might prefer zero regen on the GO pedal, I just don't see that as likely.

*Edit - Perhaps the Hyundai vehicles would please you. Our Ioniq has 4 choices for regen from 0 (zero) through 1, 2 and 3 (the highest). I like 2 or 3, typically 2, and would never opt for zero. But, it has something pretty cool (though I admit thinking they would be just a gimmick), and that's 'flappy paddles' behind the steering wheel at 9 and 3. Flicking these changes the regen up or down, and it's nice to use (flicking up from 2 to 3) when those pesky lights change, then flicking back down when most of the momentum has gone.

Question - would I go for low (1) to zero (0) on a motorway?
Answer - no, the much greater momentum at high speeds requires higher regen when someone cuts you up, or the traffic flow suddenly slows, or the retardation needed when you leave a motorway and need to slow on a slip road, something that in an ICEV would require some braking, not just lift off.

JKenH

Solarchaser said:

Weird, for me its a natural thing.
You can clearly feel when the car is pushing forward or pulling back, even the smallest amount, so keeping an "even keel" is not something I think about, I do it naturally. 

Is it not easier to find the sweet spot in D mode than in B?  In B mode the regen part of the accelerator pedal map is more aggressive (and even more so in ePedal.) You can’t ‘feather the throttle’ as precisely because there is less travel for the same amount of regen. 

Edit: Just to clarify, the comment above refers to your earlier post about driving in Eco and B. Comments below relate to the quote above about doing it naturally. 

Are you sure you can tell just from bum feel? You might think you can but in the newer Leafs the dial tells you otherwise. With the 40/62 kwh Leafs the economy/power gauge when selected is more finely calibrated and it is pretty tricky keeping it in the sweet spot as it swings from white to blue very quickly, particularly on a slightly undulating road, even a motorway. 

To maintain a constant speed requires an input of power unless you are on a downhill stretch steep enough to overcome wind resistance. When going down a slight gradient can you really judge whether the car is drawing power or regenerating or balanced perfectly between the two without reference to the power gauge? 

Hypermiling makes use of the technique of gaining momentum on downhill sections and using that momentum to go up the next incline. You need the gauge to keep you in that sweet spot so you neither regen or use power going downhill, until your speed moves out of an acceptable range given the presence of other road users. It’s easy in a manual ICE car as you can just dip the clutch for more momentum but in an EV unless you put it in neutral you will always risk regen which wastes energy. Without the gauge I just don’t see how you can judge it perfectly.

That’s just my opinion and is not in anyway intended as a criticism of your driving ability which I am sure will be pretty good if honed on the track.

Martyn1981

A thought has occurred to me, based on the point Eric makes, which I agree with, that the sweet spot between power and regen on the GO pedal may be hard to stay within theoretically, but that assumes something, and we may both have got it wrong .... how 'wide' is the sweet spot?

If the BEV transitions directly from power to regen, then it will be hard, but something has occurred to me, since I don't find that sweet spot hard to use at all, and that's that the software engineers, if they are any good, will have built in a dead area between the two.
For any gamers out there, you will know that most games and hardware will allow you to dial in an element of dead zone say on the controls since it's almost impossible to hold a joystick/thumbstick perfectly still, as we do 'vibrate and wobble' naturally. So to avoid crosshairs swirling, or cars shooting off tracks (in games) you can typically widen or narrow the dead zone either side of neutral.
Perhaps this applies to BEV's and the transition from power to regen. In fact I'll go further and suggest that if I can even think of it (today) then 'they' (the clever people) will have thought of it, and applied it many yesterdays ago.

JKenH

Ford Sees Hands-Free Driving Feature Selling 100,000 First Year

Active Drive Assist allows drivers to take their hands off the wheel while keeping their eyes on the road. It works on about 100,000 miles of North American highways Ford has mapped.

http://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/ford-sees-hands-free-driving-feature-selling-100-000-first-year-1.1515406

Martyn1981

JKenH said:

Hypermiling makes use of the technique of gaining momentum on downhill sections and using that momentum to go up the next incline. You need the gauge to keep you in that sweet spot so you neither regen or use power going downhill, until your speed moves out of an acceptable range given the presence of other road users. It’s easy in a manual ICE car as you can just dip the clutch for more momentum but in an EV unless you put it in neutral you will always risk regen which wastes energy. Without the gauge I just don’t see how you can judge it perfectly.

Couple of problems with that. Firstly you seem to be applying ICE hypermiling rules, where all retardation is a waste, so braking on a downhill is wasteful. But for a BEV you need to compare the losses in the regen, perhaps 20%, to the increase in wind resistance losses as the vehicle speeds up rolling down a hill.
Secondly, dipping the clutch, rather than coasting in high gear will burn more petrol/diesel as the car can keep the engine turning via momentum, whereas dipping the clutch will start the fuel supply up to keep the engine spinning. I may be wrong about the technicalities, but I think this really became the case when we transitioned from carbs to fuel injection, about 30yrs ago.

EVandPV

Just a heads-up for anyone with a Zappi EV charger.
Myenergi have just launched a new web portal which has Octopus Agile integration meaning it will  automatically charge your EV during the cheapest half hourly slots.
Bit of a game changer for the Zappi making it the best home charger by some way now !

https://myenergi.info/the-new-myenergi-account-t2591.html#p24350