Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

JKenH

Interesting quirk in the rules around EV cars (Autocar 26th August 2020).

Martyn1981

Amazon Orders 1,800 Mercedes Electric Delivery Vans For EU And UK

On August 28, Amazon announced it has ordered 1,800 battery electric delivery vans from Mercedes Benz. According to a report by Yahoo! News, Jeff Bezos, CEO of Amazon, said the order was part of his company’s “journey to build the most sustainable transportation fleet in the world.” The order is for 1,200 of the large Mercedes e-Sprinter and 600 of the smaller e-Vito vans, with the majority being used to deliver packages in Europe and the rest assigned to delivery chores in the UK.

The corporate goal is for the entire Amazon delivery fleet consisting of hundreds of thousands of vehicles from bicycles to tractor trailers to be carbon neutral by 2040. Mercedes on Friday signed Amazon’s Climate Pledge, which calls on the companies it does business with to commit to being carbon neutral by 2040.

The order for Europe and the UK is just a small part of Amazon’s delivery fleet in those countries, where Germany alone is the company’s second largest market, trailing only the United States. Amazon has placed a far larger order for 100,000 electric delivery vans with Rivian, a company it has made a major investment in. Is it possible that some of those Rivian vans could wind up in countries other than the US?

JKenH

Nickel sulphate: In high-nickel batteries, safety comes into question

An engineer friend of mine who knows I am enthusiastic about electric cars sent me the article below about NMC811 batteries (which LG Chem are producing for Tesla M3LR.) There have been 3 fires in EVs manufactured by GAC. (As far as I am aware Tesla are not suffering problems - maybe better battery management?) 

Now this might be just another EV batteries catch fire story or maybe there is an increased risk of fire with these cathodes as manufacturers adopt ever higher nickel content in the search for increased range. The source seems reputable.

(There is also a question about increased degradation which we won’t get the answer to for a while yet.)

https://roskill.com/news/nickel-sulphate-in-high-nickel-batteries-safety-comes-into-question/

Martyn1981

ID3's are shipping, should hopefully add to a bumper 2nd half for European BEV sales this year.

Over 700 Volkswagen ID.3 1st Editions Roll Off Ship In Norway (Video Of 3)

The Volkswagen ID.3 is here. After years of anticipation, after years of publishing early concept images of the electric car, after years of bold Volkswagen sales targets for the new electric vehicle era, the ID.3 is here.

Earlier today, Jürgen Stackmann, Board Member at Volkswagen Brand for Sales, Marketing & After Sales, tweeted out a video of three of the first Volkswagen ID.3 vehicles deboarding a ship at dawn in Norway. It’s a beautiful sight. It’s also a key landmark for thousands of employees who have made this car a reality and gotten it to production. This could be a monumental model in automotive history, the vehicle that will essentially take the baton from the Volkswagen Golf and kick off Volkswagen’s ID lineup.

ABrass

JKenH said:

Nickel sulphate: In high-nickel batteries, safety comes into question

An engineer friend of mine who knows I am enthusiastic about electric cars sent me the article below about NMC811 batteries (which LG Chem are producing for Tesla M3LR.) There have been 3 fires in EVs manufactured by GAC. (As far as I am aware Tesla are not suffering problems - maybe better battery management?) 

Now this might be just another EV batteries catch fire story or maybe there is an increased risk of fire with these cathodes as manufacturers adopt ever higher nickel content in the search for increased range. The source seems reputable.

(There is also a question about increased degradation which we won’t get the answer to for a while yet.)

https://roskill.com/news/nickel-sulphate-in-high-nickel-batteries-safety-comes-into-question/

That chemistry, roughly is being used in all Model 3s, with the exception of some Made in China ones that are possibly using LFP. In which case given the number of M3s about the issue would be clear.It sounds like bad pack management or quality control from CATL.

JKenH

ABrass said:

JKenH said:

Nickel sulphate: In high-nickel batteries, safety comes into question

An engineer friend of mine who knows I am enthusiastic about electric cars sent me the article below about NMC811 batteries (which LG Chem are producing for Tesla M3LR.) There have been 3 fires in EVs manufactured by GAC. (As far as I am aware Tesla are not suffering problems - maybe better battery management?) 

Now this might be just another EV batteries catch fire story or maybe there is an increased risk of fire with these cathodes as manufacturers adopt ever higher nickel content in the search for increased range. The source seems reputable.

(There is also a question about increased degradation which we won’t get the answer to for a while yet.)

https://roskill.com/news/nickel-sulphate-in-high-nickel-batteries-safety-comes-into-question/

That chemistry, roughly is being used in all Model 3s, with the exception of some Made in China ones that are possibly using LFP. In which case given the number of M3s about the issue would be clear.It sounds like bad pack management or quality control from CATL.

The battery game moves on very quickly and you may have more up to date information than me, in which case I stand corrected. My understanding, however, was that Tesla used NCA tech batteries in the US for cars (and NMC in Powerwalls) with some NMC in China with LFP to be rolled out in China for short range cars. It is the NMC811 specifically that is considered to be the fire risk which is what I understood was in the M3LR (and which VW are to use as well). 

It took LG Chem to convince Elon Musk to use NMC811 as previously he had been resistant to the NMC technology in Tesla cars.

ABrass

JKenH said:

ABrass said:

JKenH said:

Nickel sulphate: In high-nickel batteries, safety comes into question

An engineer friend of mine who knows I am enthusiastic about electric cars sent me the article below about NMC811 batteries (which LG Chem are producing for Tesla M3LR.) There have been 3 fires in EVs manufactured by GAC. (As far as I am aware Tesla are not suffering problems - maybe better battery management?) 

Now this might be just another EV batteries catch fire story or maybe there is an increased risk of fire with these cathodes as manufacturers adopt ever higher nickel content in the search for increased range. The source seems reputable.

(There is also a question about increased degradation which we won’t get the answer to for a while yet.)

https://roskill.com/news/nickel-sulphate-in-high-nickel-batteries-safety-comes-into-question/

That chemistry, roughly is being used in all Model 3s, with the exception of some Made in China ones that are possibly using LFP. In which case given the number of M3s about the issue would be clear.It sounds like bad pack management or quality control from CATL.

The battery game moves on very quickly and you may have more up to date information than me, in which case I stand corrected. My understanding, however, was that Tesla used NCA tech batteries in the US for cars (and NMC in Powerwalls) with some NMC in China with LFP to be rolled out in China for short range cars. It is the NMC811 specifically that is considered to be the fire risk which is what I understood was in the M3LR (and which VW are to use as well). 

It took LG Chem to convince Elon Musk to use NMC811 as previously he had been resistant to the NMC technology in Tesla cars.

I think you're wrong on most of that. 

https://electrek.co/2018/05/03/tesla-model-3-battery-cells-rare-data-energy-density-cobalt/amp/

The situation for made in china packs and cars is more complex but all 2170 batteries, used in the 3 and Y, are NMC as far as I know.

JKenH

I have always taken the view that all discussion is good discussion even if some of the premises are flawed. That is why I liked GA’s left field contributions; they made one think and go away and do some more research even if only to prove him wrong. Being told you are wrong makes you do more research and that is how we learn. Anyway, enough philosophising, doing a bit more digging I came across this interesting article comparing the latest EV battery technologies.

Battle of the batteries - Cost versus Performance

https://www.nickelinstitute.org/blog/2020/june/battle-of-the-batteries-cost-versus-performance

Edit: having read that article again I came across what I believe is an error. The article reads

However, while there is an upside on cost, the significant downside for LFP is energy density, which is only 65% - 70% that of MNC811 (depending upon packaging).  This means that to achieve the same driving range, the physical size of an EV battery would need to be one third bigger – a concern in vehicles where space is at a premium. 

I believe an LFP battery would actually need to be 50% bigger physically to achieve the same driving range. I am sure Elon Musk will have realised that as well. 

ABrass

LFP does look like a great option for the model 3 SR and for static storage, I'm not sure why it's not more of a thing. That was a good read KenH

JKenH

Competitive technologies to high nickel Li-ion batteries – the pros and cons

Further to my earlier post this article also looks at some of the other alternative  battery technologies.

https://www.nickelinstitute.org/blog/2020/february/competitive-technologies-to-high-nickel-lithium-ion-batteries-the-pros-and-cons