The Alternative Green Energy Thread

JKenH

Orsted’s offshore wind woes continue.

Orsted's $1.7 Billion Blow: What It Means for Offshore Wind and Investors

Orsted (DNNGY, Financial) just dropped a bombshell on investors, revealing a massive 12.1 billion Danish crown ($1.7 billion) impairment in Q4. The culprit? Cost overruns and delays in its 924-megawatt Sunrise Wind project off Montauk, New York. Originally slated for an earlier debut, the project's commissioning has now been pushed to late 2027. Rising costs for critical components like monopile foundations and soaring U.S. financing expenses have only added fuel to the fire, with a 4.3 billion crown chunk of the impairment directly tied to this offshore wind initiative.

The Sunrise Wind saga isn't just Orsted's problem—it's a wake-up call for the entire renewable energy sector. Inflationary pressures, supply chain issues, and rising financing costs are proving to be formidable foes, even for industry leaders. For investors, the message is clear: the road to green energy dominance won't be smooth, but the long-term rewards could still justify the bumps along the way. All eyes are now on Orsted to see if it can turn the tide and keep its U.S. ambitions afloat.

https://www.gurufocus.com/news/2662139/orsteds-17-billion-blow-what-it-means-for-offshore-wind-and-investors?r=caf6fe0e0db70d936033da5461e60141

JKenH

QrizB said:

There is a proposal for a solar farm new us. I went along to one of the public meetings. I've never seen so many NIMBYs in one place. Complaining about the effect on biodiversity (a field of wheat is a monoculture), on the landscape (the proposed site is at the side of a major road and not visible from a distance), there were even a couple of people complaining that it would be noisy!

There is currently a lot of opposition locally to solar farms in Lincolnshire. I am not involved but I do understand the sentiment of the so called NIMBYs. I think what many people fail to realise is the sheer scale of these solar farms, effectively surrounding whole villages. Below is a map showing solar farms being developed in our area. The Gate Burton solar farm (blue on the map) alone, is 5.5 sq miles in area.

it is very easy to stick a label on people as NIMBYs when it doesn’t affect you but this is industrialising a whole landscape and affecting thousands of people. Most people who label folk as NIMBYs are FIYBYs. (fine in your back yard not mine). Some people don’t want a motor racing circuit on their doorstep (something I would be happy with) so does that make them NIMBYs. You may want solar farms in principle so you can’t se why other people would possibly object.

Local people are having their land subject to compulsory purchase for the supporting infrastructure. The whole point of local councils and local planning authorities is to look after local communities’ interests as a whole and they don’t want these here.

I can’t say too much more without the discussion getting political but it does seem at the moment someone is trying to extract some form of revenge on the countryside for past grievances. 

Why not put the solar panels near their market - in green spaces in cities? After all that’s where the original power stations used to be. I would be more than happy to see Hyde Park covered in solar panels and I am sure a large proportion of the population who don’t live in London would be ok with it, or you could say the same for any park. Why are the views of country folk whom it directly affects subservient to the needs of city folk who want all this infrastructure any where but in their back yard. 

paul991

love to a solar farm near me instead of the thousands oh houses being built but  why are  we not covering all roofs first  

JKenH

QrizB said:

JKenH said:

I wondered why wind generation wasn’t ever over 20 GW yesterday.

I would be nice to source and substantiate that statement. As far as I can tell, the Met Office haven't recorded any gusts (let alone sustained) above 100mph and most turbines are happy with sustained speeds in excess of 50mph, so "double" seems rather an exaggeration?

Here's what the Ripple team had to say about Kirk Hill:

Output dropped a bit this morning; the Kirk Hill turbines reach maximum power at about 14 metres per second or 30mph, rotating at about 17rpm. However output starts to drop slightly as the blades pitch to protect the turbines in very high winds, and this is starting to happen with some of the turbines today, which is why output has reduced from max power. They only cut out when winds average 34 metres per second (75mph) over a 10-minute period - they can withstand gusts more intense than this whilst still operating. The highest gust recorded this morning was 100mph.

3pm - All the turbines are currently at 0MW output; they have automatically gone to this output to protect themselves due to vibrations resulting from the intensity of some of the gusts. Although average wind speeds have been below the threshold above which they would turn off, the gusts in this particular storm have been especially violent.

As a few members have asked, there's been no Load Management Scheme (LMS) curtailment of the site today.

So wind speed wasn't the issue at Kirk Hill; it was turbulence. It would be interesting to see how other wind farms coped.

I have been doing a bit more reading and while it does vary from turbine to turbine most articles suggest that turbines shut down at wind speed of around 25m/s (56mph). Ripple’s newer turbines are obviously different,  which may explain why, if you were just looking at Ripple’s experience, you might reasonably be surprised at the suggestion wind turbines may have shut down in storm Éowyn. 

Here’s what I found:

To prevent structural damage to the turbines, a control system automatically switches off the turbines when the wind speed exceeds 24 mps (a severe gale). The turbine blades also angle themselves 90 degrees towards the wind during periods of extreme weather to reduce the likelihood of damage.

https://www.ingenia.org.uk/articles/helping-the-green-revolution/

When the anemometer registers wind speeds higher than 55 mph (cut-out speed varies by turbine), it triggers the wind turbine to automatically shut off. This cut-out speed is much lower than the wind speeds turbines are designed to withstand, but shutting down reduces the risk of damage to the turbine.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/how-do-wind-turbines-survive-severe-weather-and-storms

Anything in excess of 25 m/s (90 km/hr) is dangerous for the wind turbine so it opts to shut down. 

https://www.endesa.com/en/the-e-face/energy-sector/wind-turbines-stopped-with-wind

Unfortunately I couldn’t copy text from this NESO document so here is a screenshot: 



https://www.neso.energy/document/13526/download#:~:text=Generally%20they%20will%20automatically%20start,%2Fs%20(56%20mph).

JKenH

paul991 said:

love to a solar farm near me instead of the thousands oh houses being built but  why are  we not covering all roofs first  

If you live on the edge of an urban area or large village you might reasonably expect to see some new housing, perhaps an acre or two. We had a new development in our village which increased the size significantly but it blended in and in fact is good for the community. Most development progresses in fits and starts over years and we get used to it. If you make a decision to live in the countryside, though, you don’t expect to be suddenly surrounded by several square miles (literally) of solar panels virtually overnight which is what is happening in parts of Lincolnshire. 

I agree with you about putting solar panels on houses first. I really would like to see solar panels mandatory on all new housing and industrial buildings. Distributed generation makes a lot of sense. Solar generation is such a good fit with the working hours on most industrial estates. The last few weeks we have been seeing a demand peak around the middle of the day which solar generation could meet. As more and more of us get electric cars, workplace and shopping centre charging could be powered by solar.

i have solar panels on my house roof and export more than I import. I have room for more but my local DNO won’t approve any expansion of my system. It is understandable as in summer our grid voltage can at time exceed the 253v limit. This is part of the problem as I see it - roof top solar is restricted by local distribution grids. If we all had solar and batteries (my NGO said no to those as well) we would reduce the need for the huge grid upgrades.

edited to add more comment

shinytop

JKenH said:

QrizB said:

There is a proposal for a solar farm new us. I went along to one of the public meetings. I've never seen so many NIMBYs in one place. Complaining about the effect on biodiversity (a field of wheat is a monoculture), on the landscape (the proposed site is at the side of a major road and not visible from a distance), there were even a couple of people complaining that it would be noisy!

There is currently a lot of opposition locally to solar farms in Lincolnshire. I am not involved but I do understand the sentiment of the so called NIMBYs. I think what many people fail to realise is the sheer scale of these solar farms, effectively surrounding whole villages. Below is a map showing solar farms being developed in our area. The Gate Burton solar farm (blue on the map) alone, is 5.5 sq miles in area.

it is very easy to stick a label on people as NIMBYs when it doesn’t affect you but this is industrialising a whole landscape and affecting thousands of people. Most people who label folk as NIMBYs are FIYBYs. (fine in your back yard not mine). Some people don’t want a motor racing circuit on their doorstep (something I would be happy with) so does that make them NIMBYs. You may want solar farms in principle so you can’t se why other people would possibly object.

Local people are having their land subject to compulsory purchase for the supporting infrastructure. The whole point of local councils and local planning authorities is to look after local communities’ interests as a whole and they don’t want these here.

I can’t say too much more without the discussion getting political but it does seem at the moment someone is trying to extract some form of revenge on the countryside for past grievances. 

Why not put the solar panels near their market - in green spaces in cities? After all that’s where the original power stations used to be. I would be more than happy to see Hyde Park covered in solar panels and I am sure a large proportion of the population who don’t live in London would be ok with it, or you could say the same for any park. Why are the views of country folk whom it directly affects subservient to the needs of city folk who want all this infrastructure any where but in their back yard. 

wow, that is big!!  Who voted for that?

ed110220

JKenH said:

Heckington solar farm approved after £5m donation despite huge local opposition. BBC reported the development without mention of the donations made by Dale Vince but the previous night he had been taken to task on BBC Question Time on the subject of donations and political influence. It was unfortunate timing of the announcement for Dale Vince. 

Solar farms are 'slap in the face' - councillor 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8xkppzrxjo

Clip from BBC Question time:

Dale Vince Last night: “I don’t seek influence.” 

Today: Ecotricity Heck Fen Solar Farm Approved

https://x.com/sirwg202110/status/1882922472699465770

Full story about the local battle over the Heckington Solar Farm in this link.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/01/24/miliband-approves-solar-farm-built-major-labour-donor/


Edited to expand on comments

But is there any objective evidence of "huge opposition"? My impression is more that a small proportion of people make a huge amount of noise either because they are nimbies or have fallen for political-ideological agitation (they see the solar farm as a symbol of something they hate) and the majority either don't really care one way or another or are broadly supportive. This is what surveys tend to show. 

JKenH

ed110220 said:

JKenH said:

Heckington solar farm approved after £5m donation despite huge local opposition. BBC reported the development without mention of the donations made by Dale Vince but the previous night he had been taken to task on BBC Question Time on the subject of donations and political influence. It was unfortunate timing of the announcement for Dale Vince. 

Solar farms are 'slap in the face' - councillor 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8xkppzrxjo

Clip from BBC Question time:

Dale Vince Last night: “I don’t seek influence.” 

Today: Ecotricity Heck Fen Solar Farm Approved

https://x.com/sirwg202110/status/1882922472699465770

Full story about the local battle over the Heckington Solar Farm in this link.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/01/24/miliband-approves-solar-farm-built-major-labour-donor/


Edited to expand on comments

But is there any objective evidence of "huge opposition"? My impression is more that a small proportion of people make a huge amount of noise either because they are nimbies or have fallen for political-ideological agitation (they see the solar farm as a symbol of something they hate) and the majority either don't really care one way or another or are broadly supportive. This is what surveys tend to show. 

Well, that’s one point of view but from someone at a distance who perhaps had never heard of this or the other solar developments in Lincolnshire. Lincolnshire County Council, representing the people of the county have submitted objections to this and the other solar farms but to no avail. The ideology is not on the part of local residents but the government which nodded one of the developments through within a couple of days of taking office - hardly time to give the matter due consideration.

Leader of Lincolnshire County Council, Cllr Martin Hill, added: “Be in no doubt that these are huge-scale developments that will change our county landscapes dramatically. Both proposals are expected to cover around 2000 acres each. The speed with which these decisions have been taken shows that this government is not prepared to listen to communities, local councils and all those fighting for our countryside. The sheer volume of paperwork associated with these proposals means that in no way could these be seen as carefully considered decisions.”

https://www.lincolnshire.gov.uk/news/article/1948/council-deeply-disappointed-at-decisions-on-solar-farms

LCC’s reaction to this week’s decision. This is not a few nimbies. 

Two more huge solar farms ‘a slap in the face’ for Lincolnshire

“Adding two more giant solar farms to Lincolnshire’s countryside, which have strong local opposition, shows that this government has not listened to our residents. These two developments add more than 1000 hectares of solar parks to the county, bringing the total land now allocated for 5 approved developments to around 3500 hectares. A further 6400 hectares are also being proposed in Lincolnshire.

https://www.lincolnshire.gov.uk/news/article/2220/two-more-huge-solar-farms-a-slap-in-the-face-for-lincolnshire

ed110220

JKenH said:

ed110220 said:

JKenH said:

Heckington solar farm approved after £5m donation despite huge local opposition. BBC reported the development without mention of the donations made by Dale Vince but the previous night he had been taken to task on BBC Question Time on the subject of donations and political influence. It was unfortunate timing of the announcement for Dale Vince. 

Solar farms are 'slap in the face' - councillor 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8xkppzrxjo

Clip from BBC Question time:

Dale Vince Last night: “I don’t seek influence.” 

Today: Ecotricity Heck Fen Solar Farm Approved

https://x.com/sirwg202110/status/1882922472699465770

Full story about the local battle over the Heckington Solar Farm in this link.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/01/24/miliband-approves-solar-farm-built-major-labour-donor/


Edited to expand on comments

But is there any objective evidence of "huge opposition"? My impression is more that a small proportion of people make a huge amount of noise either because they are nimbies or have fallen for political-ideological agitation (they see the solar farm as a symbol of something they hate) and the majority either don't really care one way or another or are broadly supportive. This is what surveys tend to show. 

Well, that’s one point of view but from someone at a distance who perhaps had never heard of this or the other solar developments in Lincolnshire. Lincolnshire County Council, representing the people of the county have submitted objections to this and the other solar farms but to no avail. The ideology is not on the part of local residents but the government which nodded one of the developments through within a couple of days of taking office - hardly time to give the matter due consideration.

Leader of Lincolnshire County Council, Cllr Martin Hill, added: “Be in no doubt that these are huge-scale developments that will change our county landscapes dramatically. Both proposals are expected to cover around 2000 acres each. The speed with which these decisions have been taken shows that this government is not prepared to listen to communities, local councils and all those fighting for our countryside. The sheer volume of paperwork associated with these proposals means that in no way could these be seen as carefully considered decisions.”

https://www.lincolnshire.gov.uk/news/article/1948/council-deeply-disappointed-at-decisions-on-solar-farms

LCC’s reaction to this week’s decision. This is not a few nimbies. 

Two more huge solar farms ‘a slap in the face’ for Lincolnshire

“Adding two more giant solar farms to Lincolnshire’s countryside, which have strong local opposition, shows that this government has not listened to our residents. These two developments add more than 1000 hectares of solar parks to the county, bringing the total land now allocated for 5 approved developments to around 3500 hectares. A further 6400 hectares are also being proposed in Lincolnshire.

https://www.lincolnshire.gov.uk/news/article/2220/two-more-huge-solar-farms-a-slap-in-the-face-for-lincolnshire

I'd say that's more like political agitation given it's from opposition politicians than hard evidence. Much more objective I think is the DESNZ Public Attitudes Tracker: Renewable energy, Spring 2024 which gives the response to the question Whether would be happy for a solar panel farm to be constructed in their local area as:

30% very happy
24% fairly happy
27% wouldn't mind either way
6% fairly unhappy
3% very unhappy
7% don't think this would be possible in my area
4% I don't know enough about them

Personally I don't see what the fuss is about with solar farms with all the hyperbole about. I work out in the countryside where there are a lot of them and they really don't show up much behind the hedgerows. Obviously that's a personal opinion, but the survey seems to indicate it's a common one. However that 3% very unhappy is plenty to make a lot of noise if they want to.

JKenH

ed110220 said:

JKenH said:

ed110220 said:

JKenH said:

Heckington solar farm approved after £5m donation despite huge local opposition. BBC reported the development without mention of the donations made by Dale Vince but the previous night he had been taken to task on BBC Question Time on the subject of donations and political influence. It was unfortunate timing of the announcement for Dale Vince. 

Solar farms are 'slap in the face' - councillor 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8xkppzrxjo

Clip from BBC Question time:

Dale Vince Last night: “I don’t seek influence.” 

Today: Ecotricity Heck Fen Solar Farm Approved

https://x.com/sirwg202110/status/1882922472699465770

Full story about the local battle over the Heckington Solar Farm in this link.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/01/24/miliband-approves-solar-farm-built-major-labour-donor/


Edited to expand on comments

But is there any objective evidence of "huge opposition"? My impression is more that a small proportion of people make a huge amount of noise either because they are nimbies or have fallen for political-ideological agitation (they see the solar farm as a symbol of something they hate) and the majority either don't really care one way or another or are broadly supportive. This is what surveys tend to show. 

Well, that’s one point of view but from someone at a distance who perhaps had never heard of this or the other solar developments in Lincolnshire. Lincolnshire County Council, representing the people of the county have submitted objections to this and the other solar farms but to no avail. The ideology is not on the part of local residents but the government which nodded one of the developments through within a couple of days of taking office - hardly time to give the matter due consideration.

Leader of Lincolnshire County Council, Cllr Martin Hill, added: “Be in no doubt that these are huge-scale developments that will change our county landscapes dramatically. Both proposals are expected to cover around 2000 acres each. The speed with which these decisions have been taken shows that this government is not prepared to listen to communities, local councils and all those fighting for our countryside. The sheer volume of paperwork associated with these proposals means that in no way could these be seen as carefully considered decisions.”

https://www.lincolnshire.gov.uk/news/article/1948/council-deeply-disappointed-at-decisions-on-solar-farms

LCC’s reaction to this week’s decision. This is not a few nimbies. 

Two more huge solar farms ‘a slap in the face’ for Lincolnshire

“Adding two more giant solar farms to Lincolnshire’s countryside, which have strong local opposition, shows that this government has not listened to our residents. These two developments add more than 1000 hectares of solar parks to the county, bringing the total land now allocated for 5 approved developments to around 3500 hectares. A further 6400 hectares are also being proposed in Lincolnshire.

https://www.lincolnshire.gov.uk/news/article/2220/two-more-huge-solar-farms-a-slap-in-the-face-for-lincolnshire

I'd say that's more like political agitation given it's from opposition politicians than hard evidence. Much more objective I think is the DESNZ Public Attitudes Tracker: Renewable energy, Spring 2024 which gives the response to the question Whether would be happy for a solar panel farm to be constructed in their local area as:

30% very happy
24% fairly happy
27% wouldn't mind either way
6% fairly unhappy
3% very unhappy
7% don't think this would be possible in my area
4% I don't know enough about them

Personally I don't see what the fuss is about with solar farms with all the hyperbole about. I work out in the countryside where there are a lot of them and they really don't show up much behind the hedgerows. Obviously that's a personal opinion, but the survey seems to indicate it's a common one. However that 3% very unhappy is plenty to make a lot of noise if they want to.

Bearing in mind the majority of the population live in urban areas, those survey results aren’t that surprising - they won’t be affected by solar farms. In fact the survey demonstrates the level of ideological objection is low and the fact that strength of feeling is so high in Lincolnshire demonstrates the real impact these solar farms will have on the people who live here. 

The other point I think you are missing is the sheer size of the solar farms: not the odd field like you might have seen in your travels, but several square miles. Just have a look at the map below. Virtually the entire area between villages is being covered in solar panels. The individual solar farms on the map below are each bigger than the town of Gainsborough which has a population of 20,000+. The whole character of large areas of countryside is bein* changed overnight. Tillbridge Solar farm (purple on the map) will cover 1200 ha, roughly the size of Heathrow Airport. 

At the meeting of West Lindsey Council to discuss the Tillbridge solar farm, only one councillor dissented to the decision to raise objections to its development. This is not about national politics. Lincolnshire County Council were objecting to these solar farms before Labour came into power.