The Alternative Green Energy Thread

shinytop

Very interesting and not the slightest hint of climate denial. 

JKenH

shinytop said:

Very interesting and not the slightest hint of climate denial. 

I suspect you are the only person who watched it. Some people just aren’t prepared to challenge their own understanding of things. This YouTuber does some very interesting science videos and I love the German  attempt at humour. 

Cardew

Not so, I also watched the video.

However, like myself, I suspect most people accept as a fact statements where there is a consensus of scientific opinion and cannot be bothered, or lack the knowledge, to research how that consensus was reached. Big Bang theory for example.

Given most of us accept global warming is happening surely the issue for most of us is how the steps taken to combat GW affect us. e.g. Is is worth GB Ltd striving to achieve Net Zero by 20?? at huge cost when countries like China and India are opening huge new coal mines on an almost weekly basis?

That is a question not a statement.  

markin

JKenH said:

shinytop said:

Very interesting and not the slightest hint of climate denial. 

I suspect you are the only person who watched it. Some people just aren’t prepared to challenge their own understanding of things. This YouTuber does some very interesting science videos and I love the German  attempt at humour. 

I watched also, The 'Nuclear Waste' video was far more interesting, But its certainly a channel and voice that will send me to sleep.

thevilla

Cardew said:

Not so, I also watched the video.

However, like myself, I suspect most people accept as a fact statements where there is a consensus of scientific opinion and cannot be bothered, or lack the knowledge, to research how that consensus was reached. Big Bang theory for example.

Given most of us accept global warming is happening surely the issue for most of us is how the steps taken to combat GW affect us. e.g. Is is worth GB Ltd striving to achieve Net Zero by 20?? at huge cost when countries like China and India are opening huge new coal mines on an almost weekly basis?

That is a question not a statement.  

Stop using China as the excuse for us to do less:

In 2022, China's expansions in solar and wind power have put it on track to hit 3,000 terawatt-hours of clean energy electricity generation - far more than any other country - and lifted the share of clean energy in China's electricity mix to a national record of 31.9%, Ember data shows

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/china-track-hit-new-clean-dirty-power-records-2022-maguire-2022-11-23/#:~:text=In 2022, China's expansions in,31.9%, Ember data shows.

JKenH

thevilla said:

Cardew said:

Not so, I also watched the video.

However, like myself, I suspect most people accept as a fact statements where there is a consensus of scientific opinion and cannot be bothered, or lack the knowledge, to research how that consensus was reached. Big Bang theory for example.

Given most of us accept global warming is happening surely the issue for most of us is how the steps taken to combat GW affect us. e.g. Is is worth GB Ltd striving to achieve Net Zero by 20?? at huge cost when countries like China and India are opening huge new coal mines on an almost weekly basis?

That is a question not a statement.  

Stop using China as the excuse for us to do less:

In 2022, China's expansions in solar and wind power have put it on track to hit 3,000 terawatt-hours of clean energy electricity generation - far more than any other country - and lifted the share of clean energy in China's electricity mix to a national record of 31.9%, Ember data shows

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/china-track-hit-new-clean-dirty-power-records-2022-maguire-2022-11-23/#:~:text=In 2022, China's expansions in,31.9%, Ember data shows.

I couldn’t access the article you linked directly (paywall for me) but I think this is the same Reuters piece from another source. I have highlighted (bold) the bit you omitted.

LITTLETON, Colo Nov 23 (Reuters) - China is set to delight and depress climate trackers in equal measure in 2022 by setting new global records in both clean power utilisation and coal-fired electricity emissions.

China's electricity generation from solar power was up by more than 30% in January to October on the same period in 2021, while electricity from wind power jumped 25% to cement the country's status as by far the world's largest deployer of renewable energy, data from Ember shows.

But over the same period, China's use of coal to produce electricity also climbed to new highs, as did the associated emissions.

https://www.xmbroker-fx.com/my/research/markets/allNews/reuters/china-on-track-to-hit-new-clean-dirty-power-records-in-2022-maguire-51624687

The point I think you may be missing is that it does not matter how much renewable generation has increased if coal fired generation is being ramped up and increasing emissions. It is the amount of CO2 emissions (not the proportion that is generated from renewables), which is critical from a climate change perspective

This graph, also from Ember but only up to 2021, shows the trend is still upwards.

https://ember-climate.org/countries-and-regions/countries/china/

Edit: To get some perspective on this, here is a graph showing just how much of the world’s emissions from coal originate from China with the US and India for comparison. 

China is without doubt the problem, not just today but for some time to come and anything we do is just p***into the wind. I am not saying we shouldn’t do more (reduced emissions are good for our health) but it is only China (and India) that can make any real difference to world CO2 levels given they are increasing coal emissions while the rest of the western world is already on a downward trend. 

michaels

It is important for the UK to make an effort to cut greenhouse gas emissions, regardless of its economy size compared to China and India. There are several reasons for this:

1. Global problem: Climate change is a global problem that affects all countries, regardless of their size or economic power. The emissions produced by the UK contribute to the overall global warming, and therefore, it is important for the UK to take responsibility for reducing its own emissions.

2. Leadership role: By taking the lead in reducing emissions, the UK can demonstrate to other countries the importance of addressing climate change and encourage them to follow suit. This could result in a domino effect, with countries around the world making commitments to reduce emissions and tackle the issue of climate change.

3. Long-term benefits: Cutting emissions can bring long-term benefits to the UK, such as reduced dependence on fossil fuels, improved public health, and a more resilient and sustainable economy.

4. Ethical responsibility: The UK has a moral and ethical responsibility to reduce its emissions, especially given its historical contribution to the problem of climate change. By reducing emissions, the UK can help to protect future generations from the negative impacts of climate change.

It is also worth noting that the size of a country's economy is not the only factor that determines its ability to reduce emissions. The UK has a strong tradition of innovation and technological advancement, and by leveraging these strengths, it can play an important role in reducing emissions and leading the global effort to address climate change.

thevilla

China has committed to peak emissions by 2030 and net zero by 2060.  Recent publicity says they're AHEAD of those targets.  Are we?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas_emissions_by_China

I'm no China cheerleader but we can't keep pointing at them in order to justify watering down our own targets.  If only for our fianancial self interest we cant rest on our laurels.   Look at the way the EV market is moving towards chinese  manufacturers!

markin

Bang for buck, Would it not now be better for us to divert some billions to install solar and battery in India? They still have 50% Coal.

https://powermin.gov.in/en/content/power-sector-glance-all-india

JKenH

michaels said:

It is important for the UK to make an effort to cut greenhouse gas emissions, regardless of its economy size compared to China and India. There are several reasons for this:

1. Global problem: Climate change is a global problem that affects all countries, regardless of their size or economic power. The emissions produced by the UK contribute to the overall global warming, and therefore, it is important for the UK to take responsibility for reducing its own emissions.

2. Leadership role: By taking the lead in reducing emissions, the UK can demonstrate to other countries the importance of addressing climate change and encourage them to follow suit. This could result in a domino effect, with countries around the world making commitments to reduce emissions and tackle the issue of climate change.

3. Long-term benefits: Cutting emissions can bring long-term benefits to the UK, such as reduced dependence on fossil fuels, improved public health, and a more resilient and sustainable economy.

4. Ethical responsibility: The UK has a moral and ethical responsibility to reduce its emissions, especially given its historical contribution to the problem of climate change. By reducing emissions, the UK can help to protect future generations from the negative impacts of climate change.

It is also worth noting that the size of a country's economy is not the only factor that determines its ability to reduce emissions. The UK has a strong tradition of innovation and technological advancement, and by leveraging these strengths, it can play an important role in reducing emissions and leading the global effort to address climate change.

That sounds like another triumph of ideology over pragmatism. You forget we are reducing our emissions and China is not. 

Where on earth did you copy these hackneyed arguments from?

1. It is a global problem -exactly; and what we can do to impact on world CO2 levels is minuscule. China can make a huge impact and is doing. Shame it’s in the wrong direction.

2. Sorry, but that really made me laugh. Do you really think where the UK leads the world follows? Where have you been living the last 50 years?

3. We have sacrificed our steel industry on the altar of climate policy and import more carbon intensive steel from China. We have shackled our industries and made ourselves uncompetitive. Sustainable economy, really? We import massive quantities of consumer goods and now cars from a country that has one of the most carbon intensive electricity grids in the world. What’s sustainable about that? Buying anything from China is just stoking the fires of climate change, but that is what, increasingly, we are doing.

4. If it weren’t for our industrial heritage much of the world would still be living with health and poverty standards from 3 centuries ago. Yes, I understand this liberal fad for self flagellation. We are the bad guys - it’s all our fault. Wow, aren’t we virtuous admitting that. 

Have you not considered that if China does cut its emissions and we don’t we still have a chance of achieving world targets for emissions reductions by 2050. If we go totally net zero by 2050 and China doesn’t cut its emissions the world burns. That is the reality of the situation. It’s all about China. 

Nothing we do here will make a blind bit of difference. It’s all posturing. We are impotent on the world CO2 stage.