Was: Windscreen PCN, Now: IAS appeal win for lease car

Redx

Also tell them to name you as lessee to the PPC , which they need tondo under POFA band BVRLA guidelines , not to just pass it to you , because POFA and the BVRLA don't advise that

They name the lessee , in writing , to absolve themselves out of the situation , legally , if they receive an NTK

foxrocks

Redx wrote: »

Also tell them to name you as lessee to the PPC , which they need tondo under POFA band BVRLA guidelines , not to just pass it to you , because POFA and the BVRLA don't advise that

They name the lessee , in writing , to absolve themselves out of the situation , legally , if they receive an NTK

Thank you for the advice. I now have it in writing from Santander that they will transfer liability to me in writing to the PPC if they receive the NTK.

foxrocks

I have now received a NTH. No other documentation was included.

From reading the newbies thread, it seems like appealing to a firm that uses the IAS is often a waste of time; however it does list this post as a possible way to win if the vehicle is leased: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/67815901#Comment_67815901

Should I therefore write an appeal solely based around this defence?

Fruitcake

You have a NTH in your name so you need to appeal it to the PPC as per one of the edna basher template letters.

You can add comments if you wish that they have failed the strict requirements of paras 13 and 14 of the PoFA so you as hirer/lessee cannot be held liable, but do it very, very carefully to ensure the driver is not identified.
Leave it a while to ensure the scammers cannot get the required docs to you in the PoFA timeframes, but do not miss the appeal deadline.

foxrocks

Appeal draft:

Dear Sir or Madam,

Ticket number: xxxxxx
Vehicle registration number: xxxxx

I appeal and dispute your 'parking charge', issued on xxxxx, as the lessee of the vehicle. I deny any liability. This is a hire vehicle and the position in relation to such vehicles is covered by paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule IV of PoFA 2012. The start point is that the Operator should seek information from the hire company.

Keeper’s Liability and PoFA 2012
As stated in paragraph 13(2) of PoFA 2012...

"The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given—

(a) A statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;

(b) A copy of the hire agreement; and

(c) A copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

AND

Paragraph 14(2) and (3) of PoFA 2012:

(2) The conditions are that —
(a) The creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;
(b) A period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed; and
(c) The vehicle was not a stolen vehicle at the beginning of the period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate.
(3) In sub-paragraph (2)(a) “the relevant period” is the period of 21 days beginning with the day after that on which the documents required by paragraph 13(2) are given to the creditor

- You were required to send this information to me (as lessee) within 21 days after receiving them from the lease/hire company.
- You were required to send these documents to me no later than 49 days after the NTK was sent to the hire company.
- With PoFA 2012, parliament clearly had in mind that the hirer of a vehicle should not be held responsible for unpaid parking charges, unless there was an agreement, signed by the hirer, accepting responsibility for those charges during the period of hire.
- I am not obliged to disclose the identity of the driver and this does not affect my liability in this matter.
- As Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd has not complied with the above PoFA 2012 paragraphs, you cannot rely on the provisions of the Act and hold me liable as keeper.
- You will need to pursue this claim with the driver once you identify them.

Note: I have contacted the landowner to strongly protest in writing the basis for this PCN. My understanding is that the parking permits at this address were brought in to deter commuters from using the building’s parking facilities; not for predatory penalisation of residents and legitimate visitors.


Yours faithfully,

foxrocks

Fruitcake wrote: »

Leave it a while to ensure the scammers cannot get the required docs to you in the PoFA timeframes, but do not miss the appeal deadline.

The NTH says they have to receive my appeal by the 22nd at the latest, so annoyingly it doesn't seem like there's any way for me to meet this while also definitely ensuring the PoFA deadlines have expired.

I've asked the lease company twice for the date on which they received the NTK, but am yet to receive a response. I know they had not heard from the PPC when I emailed them about it on December 12th, and the NTH was posted on January 3rd, so it must have been at some point between those two dates. By the 22nd, this will be between 20 and 40 days.

nosferatu1001

theyre not going to get it turned around that quickly, so I wouldnt worry so much.

foxrocks

Yeah I guess you're right - they'd have to go back to the lease company again, obtain the documents, and get them to me within the timeframe, which isn't gonna happen really is it.

nosferatu1001

Nope, not a chance.

foxrocks

Received a rejection of the appeal from PCM. Should I just submit the same statement to the IAS?

Newbies thread says "However, if it's a lease/hire car and a NTK went to the hire firm first, you CAN potentially win at IAS by cribbing from this IAS win wording:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/67815901#Comment_67815901"

Which I had already adapted into my initial appeal.