PCS | Rejected appeal with POPLA code

bob07

Hi Everyone.
This is my first post here but before that I have read newbies section and so many threads. After that I created my appeal by using a template shown in newbies section. In all the case, the following is my issue, I hope someone could shed some light to help me. Thanks in advance.
I’ve got a “PCN” from “PCS Parking Collection Services” on behalf of the creditor Parking Enforcement and Security Services”. The Parking Charge Notice has a sending date as 2nd of September 2019 (I don´t really remember if it took one or more days to arrive at my address). The PCN date of issue is: 1st september 2019 and time of issue is: 16:31:41 hs. Reason of issue: 10-Parking on Private Land without a valid permit and / or authorization. The PCN was issued on a hire car. I was charged 60 pounds by the Hire company because of their T & C’s. They sent on my email a receipt for that 60 pounds and a copy of the document they sent to the Parking Operators. Anyway, I awaited for the PCN. I assumed it may arrived at September 4th. On 27th I made my appeal, after the 21 days stated at POFA Schedule 4 Paragraph 14(2)(b) to the Parking companies to send the same documents mentioned at Paragraph 14(2)(a) (I Waited and received no documents at all). So I wrote the following appeal:

Reference: xxxxxxx
Parking Charge Notice: xxxxxxxxx
Vehicle Registration: xxxxxxx

To whom it may concern,
I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to me by Parking Charge Collection Services (“PCS”) on behalf of the creditor: “Parking Enforcement and Security Services” (the creditor does not appear as a member of British Parking Association) as a Notice to Hirer. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I was its keeper but not the driver for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.
You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why Parking Collection Services (“PCS”) on behalf of the creditor: “Parking Enforcement and Security Services” Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.
Given that Parking Collection Services (“PCS”) on behalf of the creditor: “Parking Enforcement and Security Services” has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact detail and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.
Adding to this I do not authorize the use of my personal data, do not authorize to share it with any third parties. I also request for deletion of my personal data from your database.
Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.
Yours faithfully,
Keeper’s name
Date (was a wrong date but it does not matter as the system get the right date of the appeal)

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The following was the response I got (They rejected my appeal and sent a POPLA code):


POPLA Verification Code: xxxxxxxxxx

PCN Number: xxxxxxxxx


Thank you for your appeal regarding the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

I have carefully reviewed the case and considered the points that you raised in conjunction with the facts and evidence available to me. On this occasion, your appeal has been rejected as I am satisfied that this PCN was issued correctly. I have explained the reasoning behind this decision in more detail below.

My findings

Battersea Reach is private land and is subject to a parking management scheme put in place by the operator at the landowner’s request. There are specific terms and conditions in place as part of this scheme, which are displayed on the signs in place at the site. These signs have been installed in clear and prominent positions.

At this location, parking is only permitted for valid permit holders with their permit on display.

On 01/08/2019, the vehicle was parked without a valid permit on display. This was a breach of the terms and conditions and the PCN was correctly and legitimately issued as a result.

You have exercised your right to request erasure of your data under Article 17 of the General Data Protection Regulation. However, we refuse to accept your request because:

• The lawful basis we have for processing your data is legitimate interest on behalf of our client (the Parking Company) to pursue an unpaid parking charge

Your details were obtained from the DVLA under a reasonable cause request.

We believe that our holding of your details on the file is correct due to the validity of the parking charge. Therefore, we will not remove your details from our system.

You have the right to complain about our decision to the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO). Please see this link from the ICO website for details of how you can do this:

Icopointorgpointukslashmake-a-complaintslashyour-personal-information-concernsslash

It may be worthwhile seeking further advice from the ICO helpline on 0303 123 1113 prior to raising this matter formally with the ICO.

I must also stress that simply sending in standard template responses, most likely obtained from the internet, will not resolve the matter. In addition, I would recommend that professional legal advice be sought on this matter as an alternative.

Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the motorist to ensure that they seek out, read and comply with the terms and conditions of parking that are in place. By parking on site in breach of these terms and conditions, it has been agreed that the charge detailed on the signs will be paid.

I appreciate that this may not be the desired outcome, however, you have now reached the end of our internal appeal process. The three options available are listed below:

Your options

1) Pay the PCN at the reduced amount of £60.00 within 14 days from the date of this email. After this time, the opportunity to pay at the reduced amount will no longer be available. The amount outstanding will rise to the full amount of £100.00 and will need to be paid within 14 days. Payment can be made online or by phone. Go to parkingcslpointcopointukslashpay or phone 0208 528 4122. You can find full details of how to pay on the PCN issued to the vehicle and/or on the letter(s) sent, if applicable.
2) Make an appeal to POPLA (the Independent Appeals Service) online at poplapointcopointuk using the verification code provided above. The only grounds for making an appeal are stated on the website and the appeal must be received by POPLA within 28 days from the date of this response. If you are unable to submit your appeal online, we can provide you with a form to submit your appeal by post.

If you appeal to POPLA, we will suspend recovery activity on the PCN. The charge will not increase further until the appeal outcome has been determined. Please note that if you opt to appeal to POPLA and the appeal is unsuccessful you will only be able to settle the PCN at the full amount. The opportunity to pay at the reduced amount will no longer be available.

If you choose to pay the PCN you will not be able to appeal to POPLA.

3) If you do not make payment or submit an appeal to POPLA within the relevant timeframe, the outstanding PCN may be passed to an appointed debt collection agency for further action. All costs associated with this process will be added to the full PCN amount.

More Information

By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (ombudsman-servicespointorg) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such, should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.

Kind Regards


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So, despite of they mentioned I was using a template, I was thinking to the following grounds when appealing to POPLA:
• The failure of the parking operator to comply with POFA 2012 Schedule 4 Paragraph 14(2)(a)(b):

(a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;
(b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;

The only thing I received was the “PCN”, nothing else.


• Their false statement as they mention they obtained my data from DVLA, but it is not true as who passed my data was the Car Hire Company (I think the only they can obtain from DVLA are details from the Hire Company (hope I’m right).
“Your details were obtained from the DVLA under a reasonable cause request.”


• Signage: As the keeper not the driver I tried to see what was written on their signage photographic evidence and it is not possible even zooming it in. Even though it looks like a small white P (parking) on a dark blue background and too small letters that we can’t even read in the photos.

• Grace Period: The PCN only shows the date and time the picture was captured. So if you enter a place, need to search for information you can get a ticket without any proof you stood more than allowed. What should that period be?

POFA 2012 Schedule 4
Paragraph 7 (2)The notice must—
(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

A period is, according to the dictionary, a length of time, a portion of time, it means it has a beginning and an end. There is no period of parking specified at the PCN.



= = = =

So, anyone think do I have enough grounds? Any suggestion? I was also thinking about to set grounds regarding a contract between the creditor and land owner the creditor may need to show. * Also enquiring about the loss they got for working in this issue. * Enquiring about the amount charged in regards to the “period” of stay (as they did not set any).

Ok guys, I thank you so much again in advance.

Note: I have some images but not allowed to post link as I'm new user...

MistyZ

You need to do a typical hire car POPLA appeal.

I can see you're onto the fact that hirers rarely receive all the documents listed in PoFA Schedule 4, paragraph 13 (2), but you make it sound as if you actually requested these from the PPC, which might be a little unusual! I've not heard of anyone doing that before.

Do a search on here for other, successful hire car appeals, ideally ones involving the same PPC. Carefully study how they refer to the lack of documents.

I don't know about the source of data issue ... but my main thought is that this should be a comprehensive POPLA appeal, majoring on PoFA hire car failings. Unless I'm missing something here, that should win if you're careful - POPLA success can never be guaranteed, but hire car appeals still have a very high success rate.

I wouldn't worry about their 'template' jibe. The same could be said of their response. The difference here is that if you choose the correct template, it will be fit for purpose and, if necessary, specific.

Redx

Read the threads and posts where Edna basher has contributed , especially over hire cars , POFA has specific requirements for hire and lease vehicles , so major on that aspect , plus no landowner authority , poor signage etc

Fruitcake

Once you have won at PoPLA, go back to the hire company and request your money back. The Ts and Cs of most hire Companies do not cover private parking charges. In any case, winning at PoPLA will prove the PCN should never have been issued in the first place, therefore it should never have been sent to the hire Co.

Use all the relevant points available to you from post 3 of the NEWBIES, non PoFA compliant NTK being point 1, and show us your draft before you submit it.

The_Deep

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP after the election, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]

bob07

MistyZ wrote: »

You need to do a typical hire car POPLA appeal.

I can see you're onto the fact that hirers rarely receive all the documents listed in PoFA Schedule 4, paragraph 13 (2), but you make it sound as if you actually requested these from the PPC, which might be a little unusual! I've not heard of anyone doing that before.

Do a search on here for other, successful hire car appeals, ideally ones involving the same PPC. Carefully study how they refer to the lack of documents.

I don't know about the source of data issue ... but my main thought is that this should be a comprehensive POPLA appeal, majoring on PoFA hire car failings. Unless I'm missing something here, that should win if you're careful - POPLA success can never be guaranteed, but hire car appeals still have a very high success rate.

I wouldn't worry about their 'template' jibe. The same could be said of their response. The difference here is that if you choose the correct template, it will be fit for purpose and, if necessary, specific.

My main concern is about the facts they did not send any additional documents they must with the PCN. I received only the "PCN (we can call it an invoice)". And the other thing is: how can they say that obtained my data from DVLA once is the hire company who is registered with that car plate? Also dvla told me the only way for someone else get my data is by having my personal details, along with my insurance number or if I had provided a DVLA check code (what never happened).

Thanks for you reply.

bob07

Redx wrote: »

Read the threads and posts where Edna basher has contributed , especially over hire cars , POFA has specific requirements for hire and lease vehicles , so major on that aspect , plus no landowner authority , poor signage etc

My first appeal was based on one of Edna Basher's template for hiring cars, just added the part requesting for deletion of my personal data.

Thanks for replying

bob07

Fruitcake wrote: »

Once you have won at PoPLA, go back to the hire company and request your money back. The Ts and Cs of most hire Companies do not cover private parking charges. In any case, winning at PoPLA will prove the PCN should never have been issued in the first place, therefore it should never have been sent to the hire Co.

Use all the relevant points available to you from post 3 of the NEWBIES, non PoFA compliant NTK being point 1, and show us your draft before you submit it.

For sure I'll request money back from them. Will try to finish the POPLA appeal and post here the draft.

Thank you

bob07

Hi everyone. The following is my draft. Suggestions are more than welcome.
_____________________________________________________________

PCN No: XXXXXX
POPLA Code: XXXXX

To whom it may concern.
I am writing to appeal a recent rejected formal appeal in regards to a parking charge notice issued to me by Parking Collection Services (“PCS”) on behalf of the creditor: “Parking Enforcement and Security Services”.
At the “PCN” date of issue I was the hirer and keeper of the vehicle although was not the driver.
The parking charge notice was released with date of issue 1/08/2019 with a date of sending 02/09/2019. 32 days from the issue date have passed for sending the PCN which may had taken 2 days to arrive to destination computing 34 days.

As a hirer / keeper I have reasons for understanding Parking Collection Services failed to comply with Schedule 4 of The Protect of Freedoms Act 2012.
Documents referred on Schedule 4 of The Protect of Freedoms Act 2012 under paragraph 14, sub-paragraph (2)(a)(b), sub-paragraph (3):
14(2)(a)(b)
(a) the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;
(b) a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;
14(2)
(3) In sub-paragraph (2)(a) “the relevant period” is the period of 21 days beginning with the day after that on which the documents required by paragraph 13(2) are given to the creditor.
The documents mentioned in sub-paragraph (2)(a) must follow specifications in sub-paragraph (6)(a)(b).
It is a fact that the address of the hirer was reached by a single “PCN”, the one which number is specified in the header of the present document. However no other documents, as mentioned in paragraph 13(2)(a)(b)(c) were sent to the hirer:
• statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; 13(2)(a)
• copy of the hire agreement; 13(2)(b)
• copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. 13(2)(c).
For the reason of such documents were not sent along with the PCN nor within the relevant period means a breach of Schedule 4 of The Protect of Freedoms Act 2012 by Parking Collection Services (“PCS”) on behalf of the creditor: “Parking Enforcement and Security Services.

Personal details

“Your details were obtained from the DVLA under a reasonable cause request.”(Rejection notice)
The citation above was stated in the rejection notice from Parking Collection Services. As per being a hiring car a question is arisen as by what means the data of the hirer was obtained from or how did PCS achieve referenced data. The natural way would be by requesting it from the hiring company and follow all the process according to Schedule 4 of The Protect of Freedoms Act 2012. In case the mentioned process has been followed (and it was not as indicated above), it emerges another question as the reason why PCS declares they obtained the data of the hirer from DVLA. The Driver and Vehicle License Agency has informed the only way for Third Party gain access to private data is by the owner of the data consenting it to such Third Party by giving then a DVLA check code, or by providing personal details along the national insurance number; either authorization or documentation were never given to the car park operator or anyone else acting on their behalf. Declaration like the quoted above implies an impression of authority in an attempt of misleading the hirer making them under pressure. It gives a scent of false statement.
“We believe that our holding of your details on the file is correct due to the validity of the parking charge. Therefore, we will not remove your details from our system.” (Rejection notice)
By the present is requested from PCS to be accurate and clarify by which means and from which source the data of the hirer was obtained. Evidence must be given as it could dismiss the previous quotation.

Written authorisation of the landowner

According to BPA AOS Code of Practice paragraph 7.1, the company in charge of “carrying out park management must have the written authorization of the landowner (or their appointed agent)” giving to those “authority to carry out all the aspects of car park management that the company is responsible for”.
7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.
7.3 The written authorization must also set out:
a) the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined
b) any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation
c) any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement
d) who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs
e) the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement
Parking Collection Services (“PCS”) on behalf of the creditor: “Parking Enforcement and Security Services” must provide such evidences they are allowed to operate in the referred land where the PCN was issued in accordance to BPA AOS Code of Practice.

Poor photographic Evidence

As a hirer not the driver receiving the PCN after 32/34 days of the date of issue, no documents enclosed along with the PCN nor photographic evidences of the material date. However, for the photographies, were sent a link online to four pictures (poor quality) in which signage does not show the terms and conditions at that material date and time even when such photography is magnified. Hence there is no terms and conditions from that material date. The company in charge of carrying out park management of the land or those acting on their behalf must provide an accurate, clear, not modified, not retouched and not digitally altered photography of the signage from the same date.
Furthermore the company must show evidence that their signage comply with BPA Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice at the moment of the issue of the PCN.

No Grace period

In the PCN is stated the date and time of that the PCN is issued but not an observation period (grace period). PCS and / or their creditor should provide what the period of grace is stated in that car park according to BPA AOS Code of Practice paragraph 13.1; 13.3
“If a driver is parking without your permission, or at locations where parking is not normally permitted they must have the chance to read the terms and conditions before they enter into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If, having had that opportunity, they decide not to park but choose to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable grace period to leave, as they will not be bound by your parking contract.”

Given that Parking Collection Services (“PCS”) on behalf of the creditor: “Parking Enforcement and Security Services”, based on the grounds clearly demonstrated at the present document, has not complied with Schedule 4 of The Protect of Freedoms Act 2012 and BPA Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice I request, please for the cancellation of this PCN.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response.
Yours faithfully.
hirer's name.

Coupon-mad

Don't mention PCS at all, anywhere. This is PESS you are up against, and the fact they used PCS to do some admin/send letters is irrelevant. Remove all 'PCS'.

The Driver and Vehicle License Agency has informed the only way for Third Party gain access to private data is by the owner of the data consenting it to such Third Party by giving then a DVLA check code, or by providing personal details along the national insurance number, and a thing similar to that (hirer giving own details away) has never happened.

The above sounds clunky ('thing'?) and I don't see what you are getting at with that point.

The only found was a set of four poor-quality photography online

That sentence makes no sense in English...needs re-wording.

And you have this section (below) but you haven't said how many minutes is in dispute so how the grace period was breached?

No Grace period

Keepers name.

DO NOT use the word keeper, or POPLA might miss the nuance that you are the HIRER/LESSEE.

I didn't see the usual long point about unclear signs (template from the NEWBIES).

bob07

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Don't mention PCS at all, anywhere. This is PESS you are up against, and the fact they used PCS to do some admin/send letters is irrelevant. Remove all 'PCS'.

The above sounds clunky ('thing'?) and I don't see what you are getting at with that point.

That sentence makes no sense in English...needs re-wording.

And you have this section (below) but you haven't said how many minutes is in dispute so how the grace period was breached?

DO NOT use the word keeper, or POPLA might miss the nuance that you are the HIRER/LESSEE.

I didn't see the usual long point about unclear signs (template from the NEWBIES).

Thanks for your help. I'm gonna reedit and update it in a better way.