Parking Eye - PCN issued - 'YourParkingSpace' used to book

Method_EU

nosferatu1001 wrote: »

VRM. Not N. Its a mark not a number.

Noted.

The only point I'm not too sure that could be argued, as per the Parking Contract in YourParkingSpace T&C's:

"No obligation to accept further terms. The Driver must observe any general terms and conditions that apply to individuals that park at a public car park operated by a Commercial Space Owner, but apart from this neither the Driver nor the Space Owner will be obliged to agree to any additional terms or conditions proposed by the other after the Parking Contract has been formed."

My argument would be that "The Driver must observe any general terms and conditions that apply to individuals that park at a public car park operated by a Commercial Space Owner do not clearly stipulate WHICH T&C's to follow... this could literally mean anything.

nosferatu1001

That cant really be argued - as yo upoint out, its ambiguous.

Method_EU

nosferatu1001 wrote: »

That cant really be argued - as yo upoint out, its ambiguous.

Thought as much. Will draft a defence in the coming days and post on here accordingly.

Method_EU

Well I got the standard customer service reply from YourParkingSpace - they're basically trying to deny all accountability of the events (the VRM of the booking changing from the original VRM booked, to that of the VRM belonging to the defendant). Also interestingly - even though I have screenshot evidence directly from their app that the defendants VRM was the VRM for the booking, they have now cancelled the booking... 4 months after the event had taken place.

I requested a SAR of YPS conversation between themselves and Parking Eye - long story short it confirms YPS failed to notify Parking Eye of the change of VRM for the booking (not like this makes a difference as I entered a Parking Contract with YourParkingSpace, not Parking Eye).

I sent the following along with my SAR request:

..."When the vehicle was updated on the morning of your booking start time, the details had not been updated to Parking Eye which is why the paid duration is "0" on the online portal". Can you please clarify as a YourParkingSpace customer, why I am liable for this? It is not my obligation as a YourParkingSpace customer, to notify any third party contractor who monitor car parks, of any change in vehicle details for the booking. Please refer me to these Terms and Conditions if I am wrong. I did not enter into any contract with "Parking Eye", I entered into a contact with YourParkingSpace as the 'driver' (I was not the driver of the vehicle in question), 'driver' in these terms as per the YourParkingSpace Parking Contract XXXyourparkingspace.co.uk/company/parking-contract):

* Drivers. We refer in the Parking Contract to individuals who pay to park as Drivers, even if the person who pays to allow a vehicle to be parked in a parking space is not in fact the driver of that vehicle.

In addition to the above, as per YourParkingSpace Parking Contract:

* No reliance on anything outside the Parking Contract. The Driver and the Space Owner acknowledge that the Parking Contract contains the whole agreement between the parties and each acknowledges that he or she has not relied upon any other statement (written or verbal) made by the other in entering into the Parking Contract, other than the Space Owner's description of the parking space included in the advertisement.

As per the Parking Contract with YourParkingSpace, The 'Space Owner' being Crowne Plaza Hotel - Leeds, 'Driver' being myself. No third party "contractor". Further to this point, in the same T&C as above:

* the Parking Contract contains the whole agreement between the parties and each acknowledges that he or she has not relied upon any other statement (written or verbal) made by the other in entering into the Parking Contract, other than the Space Owner's description of the parking space included in the advertisement.

As per the attached image (image 1), this shows clearly at the bottom of said advertisement to ignore pay and display signs. Image 2 as attached shows said pay and display signs. To reiterate, I did NOT enter into a contact with Parking Eye, nor are the T&C's in said sign clear and easy to understand.

* If the PCN had been issued to your new registration in your booked duration, YourParkingSpace would have taken full responsibility as the PCN would have been issued due to a tech error on our end.

There is an obvious "tech error" from your end - I updated the booking, as allowed, in the YourParkingSpace app to VRM XXXXX from VRM XXXXX. The PCN was issued to the registered keeper of VRM XXXXX which does not belong to myself. Per the YourParkingSpace Parking Contract, I am the 'driver' as I made the booking. YourParkingSpace failed to inform Parking Eye of the change of details, of the booking, therefore a PCN was incorrectly raised. One could also argue this is a breach of DPA and harassment of the keeper of VRM XXXXX .

* However, in this case the PCN would have been issued regardless as it has been issued because you had significantly overstayed your booking duration and was not authorised to park past 10:30am.

Could you kindly clarify on this point? This an assumption unless you have technical information/knowledge on how ANPR systems work, and how Parking Eye operate these systems. You are assuming the ANPR system used is fully calibrated, tested regularly and maintained to required standards. Further to this, I have already explained the scenario of said "overbooking" and to why this happened which you clearly have shown no empathy towards.

* We have cancelled your booked parking space with us on the date in question as the vehicle had not fed through

How can you cancel a historic booking? I have screenshot evidence of the booking, which shows the VRM as XXXXX , not VRM XXXXX

Can you please clarify what "as the vehicle had not fed through" means, to aid my understanding?

I hope you will consider the above information in changing your decision on the outcome of this unjust PCN.

Shady practice by YPS - absolutely will not be using them again in the future.

Method_EU

To add to the above:

YourParkingSpace are ignoring the points made in the above email (typical customer services) and trying to deny any wrongdoing from their end.

Could this been seen as 'spoliation of evidence' as they're potentially withholding evidence that I could rely upon in court - specifically being not providing proof of the booking being changed on their system (although I do have a screenshot of this from within the app). They've also "cancelled" the booking 4 months since the incident - trying to make it look like I've not made any booking at all. Sounds like they're trying to defend Parking Eye!

Method_EU

A very overdue update to this case - Parking Eye did not file their documents on time the first time around and the case was never heard. PE ended up applying for the case to be re-heard, which happened today.

Outcome: PE Won
Claim no. F9FC96CY at Leeds County Court 26/02/2021 with Judge Teeman (will have to double-check the spelling)

The case was finally heard today - a phone conference. The original claim was back in 2019.

The basis of our arguments (the case was against my partner, I was a Witness as I was the one who made the original booking) was that:

1. As I (not my partner) had made the booking - there was a contract between myself and YourParkingSpace. A part-payment was made for the original booking which was, admittedly MY error due to rushing in making the booking and changing the car reg to my partners.
   
2. PE had no contractual relationship as we had booked via YourParkingSpace and entered a contract with them.
   
3. The signage was not sufficiently clear to establish a "contract" in the alternative, between my partner and PE as the T&C's of the contract were not legible.
   

The hearing lasted roughly 20 minutes - in which it was a one-sided barrage, the Judge vs Defendant. The Judge very early on noted my partner was a Solicitor (NQ) (no idea how she knew this - she must have Googled her name before the case had begun because this was never disclosed, nor was this relevant to the case but she made the point very early on which set the tone of the whole hearing). The Judge did not accept that a "part payment" was sufficient for the time we spent parked in the area, nor that the contract we had with YPS was sufficient. The Judge did not allow Defendant to even discuss the signage argument in detail, instantly dismissing the argument saying "the signage is clear".  All that the representative for PE (not one of their actual legal team, no surprises) said overall was a summary of their Claim which the judge agreed on all points. Straight after that, the Judge then proceeded to summarise everything, siding with PE with all points. PE even had the cheek to try and claim an extra £190 for "unreasonable conduct", which was dismissed. The Judge did not pull them up on their conduct i.e Why they failed to file the Claim in time previously, why they only gave us 7 days to view their WS.

Do we have any legal grounds on appeal here? It feels like the Judge already had a view against the Defendant due to her legal profession - along with not letting the Defendant argue their case in respect of the Defence on clear lack of signage. Should we even bother with an appeal, if so?

Apologies if I've missed out on something glaringly obvious such as details - just as you can imagine, extremely !!!!!! off as these con artists won without the Judge seeing the whole picture in essence. Any advice, help, or otherwise would be appreciated.

Coupon-mad

The Judge did not pull them up on their conduct i.e Why they failed to file the Claim in time previously, why they only gave us 7 days to view their WS.

Was that pointed out today, about the Witness Statement, if you are saying they failed to serve it to you in time?

Not sure what you mean about filing a claim in time because they could do that at any time within 6 years of the parking event.

Method_EU

Coupon-mad said:

The Judge did not pull them up on their conduct i.e Why they failed to file the Claim in time previously, why they only gave us 7 days to view their WS.

Was that pointed out today, about the Witness Statement, if you are saying they failed to serve it to you in time?

Not sure what you mean about filing a claim in time because they could do that at any time within 6 years of the parking event.

Unfortunately not - I would have brought it up absolutely if I were the defendant. In respect of my partner I won't comment on why she never did bring this to the attention of the judge.

Re the other point I believe I may be getting confused with the hearing fee - will clarify tomorrow.

In respect of the summary - do we have a leg to stand on in terms of appeal? Would I be able to appeal on her behalf?

Coupon-mad

You can't appeal on her behalf but it was always open to you to attend with her and lay rep (speak for her) as long as she was attending as well.  Unfortunately at appeal stage there is no right of audience automatically for a lay rep and the Circuit Judge may or may not give permission.

But that's if the application to appeal was even granted.  Most are refused and people waste their money, don't even get an appeal hearing. 

You need an 'error in law' to support an appeal.  I believe the hearing was unfair by the sound of it but I'm not seeing an error in law.  The Judge is entitled to make a finding that signage is clear, and bearing in mind the Supreme Court found ParkingEye signs to be clear I doubt a local Circuit Judge will reverse a decision about ParkingEye signs that tallies with the Supreme Court view in Beavis.

Method_EU

Ah, that's frustrating. I would have spoken on her behalf in hindsight especially as I've won vs VCS in court as of recent.

Harsh lesson learnt for the both of us I suppose. I guess the only satisfaction we can get from this is knowing PE are actually out of pocket overall as they had to pay to bring the case back to court, alongside having to pay a solicitor for their time.