Employer refusing Push Doctor sick note.

Undervalued

Blatchford wrote: »

As for the comments about medical standards, just because something is legal or permissible doesn't make it a good idea. Taking medical advice from a doctor with no access to your medical notes, no medical history, and based on nothing other than a conversation via a phone is not sensible. Surgeries might have telephone appointments, but those doctors have your medical notes and history in front of them. And can make a judgment that they need to see you or that you need tests. These online services are purely interested in profit. Your health is nothing to them. Which is why they charge ridiculous fees for nothing more than a chat with a doctor.

OK, that is a matter of opinion (apart from the bit about access to medical notes). Ultimately such services are allowed and the doctors offering them are risking their GMC registration if they do not operate in a professional and ethical way.

You could say the same about most private hospitals where the majority of consultants earn additional fees over and above their NHS salary.

And are the fees ridiculous? £30 for ten minutes or £100 for half an hour face to face is less than the charging rate of a fairly junior solicitor in a medium sized practice. My NHS GP practice charged £240 per hour for any chargeable work last time I looked (and that was several years ago).

Energize

Blatchford wrote: »

I can't say that I am entirely surprised - quite apart from the dangers of taking medical advice and prescriptions from someone who has no connection to the NHS

Some of the best doctors in the country do not work for the NHS. If you saw an actual GP in person for work related stress physical examinations such as blood tests would not normally be done so the standard of care would not really differ.

Blatchford

Undervalued wrote: »

OK, that is a matter of opinion (apart from the bit about access to medical notes). Ultimately such services are allowed and the doctors offering them are risking their GMC registration if they do not operate in a professional and ethical way.

You could say the same about most private hospitals where the majority of consultants earn additional fees over and above their NHS salary.

And are the fees ridiculous? £30 for ten minutes or £100 for half an hour face to face is less than the charging rate of a fairly junior solicitor in a medium sized practice. My NHS GP practice charged £240 per hour for any chargeable work last time I looked (and that was several years ago).

It would appear that GMC standards might be slipping then:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/did-he-jump-push-doctor-founder-eren-ozagir-leaves-online-gp-app-p5jnz8hnz
https://www.digitalhealth.net/2017/06/digital-gp-service-found-unsafe-and-ineffective-by-cqc/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5355507/A-GPs-verdict-mobile-doctor-apps.html
https://www.bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k3058

As I said previously, there is a huge difference between being "legal" and being "right". Yes, if you have £30+ to pay to be told that you probably have a cold, that's great. You could, on the other hand, nip down to the pharmacy where a pharmacist will tell you that for free. But, for example, you might have chest pains, a very common symptom of stress. Want to know what it's also a symptom of? Heart disease. An on line doctor cannot do even the most rudimentary of tests to check that out. Symptoms of acid reflux? You can take an antacid. Any online doctor who doesn't know your medical history can tell you that. Unless, of course, it's actually a symptom of ongoing small heart attacks that causes life threatening scarring on the heart.

The answer to stresses in the NHS is not inadequate for profit services that risk people's health and are only available to those that can pay, or who are prepared to go to whatever lengths to get the money to pay. The poster here has no savings and just spent £75 on nothing more than a piece of paper. Hopefully all they have lost is the money. But they could have gone back to the free access GP. They didn't. They had a week off but still didn't go back. And they still haven't. It may be nothing more than stress. It is impossible to tell without an actual physical examination. It is impossible to access the services that might be needed to support someone who is suffering extreme anxiety without aGP referral (or a lot of money). If we want a service that only the well off or the privately insured can afford to access, then we must also be prepared to see, as in the US, the poor and the struggling turned away from health care and dying because they cannot afford the cost of living.

Blatchford

Energize wrote: »

Some of the best doctors in the country do not work for the NHS. If you saw an actual GP in person for work related stress physical examinations such as blood tests would not normally be done so the standard of care would not really differ.

I did not mention blood tests once. But there are a large number of tests that a GP would do, such as pulse rate, blood pressure etc. Are you suggesting that a doctor on your phone can do these? Simple tests. But could tell the difference between something minor and something not. Equally, they can refer on to other services if required. An app cannot. So yes, the standard of care is vastly different.

I also made a very big distinction between properly supported private health care and one off on line consultations with someone who knows nothing about you or your medical circumstances. I am not arguing against private health-care. I am arguing against inadequate health-care wherever it is found, and in favor of a properly funded public health care system so that nobody should be without the very best health care that can be offered, simply because they are poor.

Savvy_Sue

Undervalued wrote: »

If the OP is a member of a union I would suggest getting them involved.

This, very definitely this.

fred246

Does the Push Doctor sick note actually have 'Push Doctor' written on it? There is no need for it to do. The name and address of the doctor and maybe their GMC registration would surely be enough. Surely if you asked them not to put 'Push Doctor' on it they could.

Comms69

Blatchford wrote: »

I can't say that I am entirely surprised - quite apart from the dangers of taking medical advice and prescriptions from someone who has no connection to the NHS, no access to any medical history, and no ability to actually examine you or make any medical checks, this app has become known as the "sick note app" because it is a method of doing nothing more than buying a sick note. - just worth clarifying that the doctors on these apps are legitimate doctors, registered with the GMC. Most GPs relationship with the NHS is purely financial - they are equally privately employed. I'm also quite shocked that with no savings you decided it was a good idea to spend £30 per consultation and £15 for a fit note. You could have self-certified for a week without any doctors advice, and you could have used that week to make arrangements to see your GP. All GP practices have emergency appointments - I appreciate that it can be very hard at times to arrange an immediate appointment, but if you persist the GP must see you.

But the answer is yes - any employer can choose to reject a fit note. It isn't something that is really recommended practice normally, because they must have grounds to believe that the person is not genuinely sick. Unfortunately, by using an app notorious for the sale of false sick notes, you handed them that reason. I do appreciate that you probably didn't realise any of this, but I would guess that the company believe that if they accept such dodgy sick notes, they may well open a flood gate when word gets around that one no longer needs to actually be ill (or a remotely good faker) to get sick notes.

I think all you can do is submit a grievance saying that you could not be expected to know that the fit note was not acceptable - you can, if an employer refuses SSP, complain to HMRC, but I would think it may be a grey area as to what they might make of this. Of course, in any way, you should make an urgent appointment with your medical practice - either with a GP or a nurse practitioner (most of whom can issue sick notes). It's unlikely at this stage that they could back date it though as they haven't any record of your previous illness.

On a further note, many of the symptoms of stress can also be symptoms of other serious conditions. If stress is so serious as to prevent you from working, then you must be presenting with more than "I'm a bit upset over something" especially if it prevents you working for three weeks. It is dangerous to assume such symptoms are definitely stress or only stress, which is why face to face consultations in which a doctor or health practitioner can assess your general condition and do some routine tests are so important.

But I agree with the rest of your post

Comms69

A lot of people have posted about using an 'NHS' doctor. Unless you're in hospital, it's very unlikely that would happen. 99.9% of GPs are privately employed.


The services is NHS funded, but the doctor you see is a private employee (or partner) in the practice. The relevant issue is to ensure they are GMC registered.

robatwork

Having never heard of Push Doctor I spent 30 seconds on their website.

Here is something I found in the FAQ https://www.pushdoctor.co.uk/nhs

Do I need to de-register from my own GP to use Push NHS?
Standard charges apply for prescriptions.

Shonky attention to detail, I won't be partaking.

Undervalued

robatwork wrote: »

Having never heard of Push Doctor I spent 30 seconds on their website.

Here is something I found in the FAQ https://www.pushdoctor.co.uk/nhs:




Shonky attention to detail, I won't be partaking.

A bit like your link!

You need to delete the colon at the end of the blue link for it to work!