Employer refusing Push Doctor sick note.

Undervalued

Browntoa wrote: »

Push doctor uses registered doctors you are basically paying to see a private doctor ( who also works for the NHS )

You never get a "health practitioner"

Some pharmacies near me now offer a similar service , see a doctor in real time but for a fee.

Any paperwork issued is genuine and subject to the same GMC rules

Exactly!

I was also going to mention about some pharmacies offering a very similar service where you go into a cubicle and "see" a doctor over a video link.

Frankly, the large NHS practice I use isn't much better these days which is a real shame as until a few years ago it was excellent. The delay in getting appointments became crazy so they changed to a so called "doctor first" system.

You can no longer book in advance so you have to first convince a receptionist that you need to speak to a doctor on the phone. You then wait around for hours for a call back (which sometimes is delegated to a paramedic or nurse practitioner). If the doctor can deal with the matter over the phone and prescribe and / or issue a fit note they will. If they decide you need to be seen "hands on" then you will be given an appointment "generally" later the same day. So effectively you have to be available for the whole day. Yes, they have the advantage of your NHS record but they are dealing with most matters just via a voice call and not even video!

There are also several "up market" private GP practices in the town where I live. There for c. £100 you get a 30 min face to face consultation but still without the benefit of your records (unless you have a copy yourself to take along). Apart from the more leisurely aspect you are mainly buying convenience and jumping the queue.

However much we may love the NHS in some areas it is creaking at the seams or, quite frankly, broken. There is little wonder chargeable alternatives are springing up.

Undervalued

shortcrust wrote: »

As others have said, it’s up to the employer whether they accept a note so there’s nothing you can do to force them.

Your GP will be able to give you a backdated note to cover your absence so no need to stress too much. Book an appointment asap! Also try calling the surgery first thing tomorrow. GPs often have a long wait for scheduled appointments but if you call in and say it’s urgent you can sometimes get a same day slot.

I wouldn’t be too impressed with a note from Push Doctors for stress. Not because I wouldn’t believe you but because if your stress is severe enough to be off work you need a doctor who’s going to provide proper help and support. Being signed off without a treatment plan of some sort is just a sticking plaster that isn’t going to help anyone.

ETA: Rightly or wrongly, the impression given by going to Push Doctors for something like this is that you’re more interested in getting a sick note than in getting medical help.

Are you sure? I understood (maybe wrongly) that wasn't allowed.

TELLIT01

Undervalued wrote: »

Are you sure? I understood (maybe wrongly) that wasn't allowed.

They can backdate a medical certificate, but only if they have seen/spoken to the patient on or before the date the certificate is to be backdated to. So that will generally only be applicable to continuation certificates for an existing illness.

shortcrust

Undervalued wrote: »

Are you sure? I understood (maybe wrongly) that wasn't allowed.

TELLIT01 wrote: »

They can backdate a medical certificate, but only if they have seen/spoken to the patient on or before the date the certificate is to be backdated to. So that will generally only be applicable to continuation certificates for an existing illness.

I must have a nice GP! I had one backdated about four years ago. It wasn’t a pre existing condition.

ThemeOne

It might be worth having a word with HR yourself just to check the position. As I understand it, at present you are taking the word of the person you gave the sick note to (presumably your line manager) that it won't be accepted. There is a possibility she's mistaken.

You don't say whether the sick pay you get is basically your full salary, or something less. If HR insist they will not pay, I would ask them if they will at least pay Statutory Sick Pay.

Undervalued

shortcrust wrote: »

I must have a nice GP! I had one backdated about four years ago. It wasn’t a pre existing condition.

So unless the OP's NHS GP bends or doesn't understand the rules it seems unlikely they will be able to backdate.

However if they feel it appropriate to issue a fit note for the same condition, dated from when they do see the OP, I would have thought that would put the OP in a fairly strong position. It would give further credibility to the Push Doctor's advice.

Ultimately the OP does have written evidence from a qualified doctor that advised them to refrain from work. The employer has no medical evidence, just a policy (apparently) to disregard fit notes from certain medical services. If the OP is a member of a union I would suggest getting them involved.

Undervalued

ThemeOne wrote: »

It might be worth having a word with HR yourself just to check the position. As I understand it, at present you are taking the word of the person you gave the sick note to (presumably your line manager) that it won't be accepted. There is a possibility she's mistaken.

You don't say whether the sick pay you get is basically your full salary, or something less. If HR insist they will not pay, I would ask them if they will at least pay Statutory Sick Pay.

Indeed.

If the company are refusing to pay SSP then they are obliged to give the OP a statement of their reasons. Any sick pay beyond SSP is almost certainly discretionary, not contractual, so would be very difficult to challenge.

sportsarb

Undervalued wrote: »

Are you sure? I understood (maybe wrongly) that wasn't allowed.

They can definitely backdate a sickline so long as there is continuous medical supervision, that might include the waiting period from the time of ringing up, to the time of the appointment.

What they are usually apprehensive about doing is signing off for a period where there is no medical contact whatsoever. Like if I was to ring tomorrow and ask for a sickline for the last 3 months and this was my first contact with the surgery, it would be pretty suspect of them to give me a line to say that I was unable to work for that period, they'd have no way of knowing whether that was actually the case for the last 3 months.

Incidentally, and not at all related to the OP's situation, but tomorrow is the last day of my current sickline. As I have been dismissed from 22/10/2019 and I have been placed in the SG on ESA, it is the first time I don't have to annoy the GP's and go through the stress of that, its somewhat of a weight off the mind.

74jax

davids96 wrote: »

Because I was not able to get an appointment with my GP soon enough I spoke with a doctor using Push Doctor and was advised that I take 1 week off work for stress using a self certification and to contact them again in a weeks time if i need more time off work. I phoned my work and told them this and they said "that's fine see you in a week".

I spoke with the doctor again after one week from Push Doctor and was given a two week sick note that was sent to my home to take into work. The note contains the doctors name, signature, dates my names address and verification code to check its legit. Once I brought the sick note into work I was told that they do not accept push doctor sick notes as anyone can fake them and they are not real doctors and that I will not be paid for my 1st week off or any of the two weeks off from the sick note. Is that true can they choose to reject it? My employer is Tesco.

Now i am even more stressed out because if i don't get paid I will not be able to pay rent or my bills as i have no savings and the nearest doctors appointment is not for two weeks. Do you guys have any advice?

Thanks.

I'm confused with your timescales, you spoke to your doctor but couldn't get an appointment for 2 weeks. So spoke to push doctor who said to take a week off which you did.

You then spoke to push doctor the following week who gave you a sick note for 2 weeks. Is this right?

However after the first week of your sick note with push doctor, you would have seen your doctor - ie 2 weeks from the start - so where are you on the sick note from your actual doctor?

Blatchford

Undervalued wrote: »

I have never used this service but, as I understand it, they provide a face to face (via video) consultation with a GMC registered doctor. If, in their clinical judgement, they feel you need a prescribed medicine they can issue a private prescription. Like any doctor they can also provide advice as to the patient's fitness to work.

If, as you seem to believe, they are cutting corners and not acting in a professional and ethical way then that is a matter for the GMC which has all the necessary legal powers to protect the public.

However, as far as I know, the service has been available for quite a while and I am not aware of any formal sanctions against any of their doctors?

Like any professional advice as to an employee's fitness to work an employer is free to disregard it. However, if that was challenged at an employment tribunal, they would need some professional evidence that the opinion of the qualified doctor the OP has "seen" was wrong.

Whilst that is all true, for the reasons I have outlined, and which have been the subject of many investigations, it is considered inadvisable to use such services. And, as I have also said, such services have gained a reputation for "sick notes for sale". Employers are not idiots, they know this, and many do not accept such sick notes. Whether that is true of Tesco or not I don't know. My own employer, and many others that I know, have policy that they do not accept privately purchased sick notes unless part of a privately funded health package. They wouldn't accept one from an app based service either.

An employment tribunal won't ever discuss this matter. It is a matter, if the employer refuses SSP, for HMRC not a tribunal. The law on this is very clear. An employer is allowed to refuse to accept any sick note. The arbiter of whether that decision is within their power lies with HMRC.

As for the comments about medical standards, just because something is legal or permissible doesn't make it a good idea. Taking medical advice from a doctor with no access to your medical notes, no medical history, and based on nothing other than a conversation via a phone is not sensible. Surgeries might have telephone appointments, but those doctors have your medical notes and history in front of them. And can make a judgment that they need to see you or that you need tests. These online services are purely interested in profit. Your health is nothing to them. Which is why they charge ridiculous fees for nothing more than a chat with a doctor.