HA planning CCTV to prevent flytipping - few tenants are doing this

od244051

I live in a flat which was originally shared ownership and parents paid the part which wasn't mine when they downsized. Still pay service charge to the housing association. The HA have 10 flats - 6 are social housing and 4 shared ownership (incl mine) and 6 houses on the neighbouring street. The back of the houses back onto the car park for the flats and houses. Four of the flats have their own external entrance. The others have a communal entrance with one other flat.

At the bin store area, there has been a spate of flytipping which I believe its only primarily done by 2 flats and 1 house. How do I know this? Earlier this year, I saw a fridge freezer being delivered to one of the above flats who both share a communal entrance. Later that day, the old fridge freezer was dumped by the bin store. There was 99.9% chance it came from one of those two flats. Seen other large goods being delivered to these flats with the old one dumped later. I also know the house in question has also fly tipped as they put a load of rubbish inside a large cardboard box which still had the address of the property on it. Its highly unlikely that the rubbish came from another property. Also I think these tenants are getting friends and family to fly tip stuff here as well. As earlier this year, a free standing cooker was dumped. The properties including the private properties on the street all had inbuilt appliances. The estate was built 9-11 years ago The cooker looked older than that.

Now the HA have written to us leaseholders under s20 of Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 as amended by Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002 section 151 to consult us for installation of CCTV to cover the bin store and area - as most flytipping has been done outside. Its going to cost each flat around £300. I am annoyed that the houses are not included in this as will decrease the cost per flat by £100.

The HA have invited us to put a written observation by a certain date in November, I did mine yesterday mentioning that there are few tenants that are responsible including the houses and the above examples of the fridge freezer. Also these tenants all have a car and tip is only a mile away. As also seen dumped microwaves, small chest of drawers etc - all can be put into a car without issue.

Earlier this year, the council have changed refuse and recycling collections from bags to bins and I have not used the bin store since the change ad got my own bins. The bin store is still in use by some tenants who don't recycle at all as their recycling bins are pristine

What other things could my HA do?

G_M

Flytipping is a problem. Sounds like the HA is taking it seriously and trying to stop it.


But if you think they are putting cameras in the wrong place- tell them!


Maybe even go in and have a chat.

eddddy

od244051 wrote: »

...consult us for installation of CCTV to cover the bin store and area - as most flytipping has been done outside. Its going to cost each flat around £300. I am annoyed that the houses are not included in this as will decrease the cost per flat by £100.

According to the leases, is the bin store for the use of the flats, or is the bin store for the use of the flats and the houses?

If the bin store is just for the use of the flats, then it's reasonable that just the flat owners pay for cctv to protect it.

(I take your point that the house owners might be illegally dumping rubbish there, but that doesn't give your HA the right to insist that the house owners pay for the flat owners' cctv.)

od244051 wrote: »

The HA have invited us to put a written observation by a certain date in November, I did mine yesterday mentioning that there are few tenants that are responsible including the houses and the above examples of the fridge freezer. Also these tenants all have a car and tip is only a mile away. As also seen dumped microwaves, small chest of drawers etc - all can be put into a car without issue.

FWIW, that's not really the kind of observations the HA meant.

They meant your observations (or comments) about the plan to install cctv cameras.

For example, whether you think they should

• install more cameras
• install fewer cameras
• install no cameras at all
• install the cameras in different locations
• install infra-red cameras, and/or night time flood lights

etc

od244051

eddddy wrote: »

According to the leases, is the bin store for the use of the flats, or is the bin store for the use of the flats and the houses?

If the bin store is just for the use of the flats, then it's reasonable that just the flat owners pay for cctv to protect it.

(I take your point that the house owners might be illegally dumping rubbish there, but that doesn't give your HA the right to insist that the house owners pay for the flat owners' cctv.)

The bin store is for the use for the flats as when first built, the houses had kerbside collection, There is a key code lock to it which the flats should only use it. A tenant must have given the code to the house who fly tips as seen a letter on the floor in the bin store with their name and address.

eddddy wrote: »

FWIW, that's not really the kind of observations the HA meant.

They meant your observations (or comments) about the plan to install cctv cameras.

For example, whether you think they should

• install more cameras
• install fewer cameras
• install no cameras at all
• install the cameras in different locations
• install infra-red cameras, and/or night time flood lights

etc

Ok I will contact with the HA with suggestions of the cameras. Think an infra red one will be beneficial as just in case the culprits decide to dump during the night.

My suggestions for cameras are at the bin store area and by the communal door to the 2 flats who I think are the main culprits. These flats are nearest to the bin store and often see them dump their bags of rubbish by the external front door. Then one has a baby and screws up the used nappies using the remains of the stickiness into a ball and throws it into the bin store with no bag and no attempt to put into a bin. In the warm weather, the nappy unfolds:eek:

AdrianC

od244051 wrote: »

Ok I will contact with the HA with suggestions of the cameras. Think an infra red one will be beneficial as just in case the culprits decide to dump during the night.

Or, perhaps, a PIR security light covering the area?

TBH, I suspect the mere suggestion of cameras will resolve the issue.

eddddy

od244051 wrote: »

The bin store is for the use for the flats as when first built, the houses had kerbside collection, There is a key code lock to it which the flats should only use it. A tenant must have given the code to the house who fly tips as seen a letter on the floor in the bin store with their name and address.

So you could include in your observations that you think the code should be changed periodically, or that a key or fob should be used for access (e.g. a security key that is much harder to get copies of).

But that would be a further cost that you'd have to pay.

[Deleted User]

Unfortunately CCTV can easily be outwitted with voluminous hoodies. They will only work if the path of a 'dumper' can be traced from their flat, and even then with no certainty (without having a face shot, the accused could say it was someone in their property other than them).

Had bad experiences with CCTV supposedly being the answer to everything myself.

What might work is giving each property owner their own code or a fob if that code/fob is used by a 'body', you know where they are coming from or the owner has given the code to someone else. But could increase the costs of systems used.

But even this system could mean items are strewn outside the rubbish area.

m0bov

Does your lease allow for this? For cant just install something unless you all agree, CCTV is a waste of time, it wont let you catch them.
Its a common problem.

AdrianC

...and it's already been binned as spam.

Davesnave

AdrianC wrote: »

...and it's already been binned as spam.

Very obvious spam too where the company owner uses his real moniker as a username.

I looked at their accounts and decided not to report. They need all the spam they can generate! :rotfl:

od244051

I'm bumping the thread as got some updated information.

The CCTV installation will go ahead. The HA have listed three different quotes, with an average of £10.5k They are proposing to charge the leaseholders, a one off £350, which I believe its only 4 out of the 16 properties. One of them is mine. The rest of the funds will be taken from their long term contingency fund then charge the 10 flats about £14.50 extra on service charges or rent for the servicing of the cameras etc.

I am very angry that the 6 houses are not being charged for the running of the CCTV cameras,esp as one of the families living in these are one of the main culprits of the flytipping. I know this as they listed the full maintenance cost then the extra monthly cost. Divide the yearly cost of maintenance by 120 - 10 flats, 12 months is the monthly cost listed. If the houses were included in the cost of the annual running of CCTV, then our monthly costs will increase by about £9.10.

A few other things I have thought about this since getting the letter a few days ago
. If there someone is caught on CCTV camera flytipping stuff, how do the HA know who it is and which property they live at? Do we need to provide photos of ourselves? Some tenants may not bother doing this
. The persistent offenders may flytip their stuff in new areas, which are not covered by CCTV
. I am not cash rich and for me £350 in a one off lump sum will be too much for me. I do have the funds but they are more for things like mortgage and other bills which if I stop paying, will affect my credit rating or get fined (car tax). The whole point of shared ownership is for people like me who cannot afford to get a mortgage on a normal property. Many won't be cash rich like myself. Then paying out £175 a year for CCTV service charge etc.

I am going to contact the HA about my thoughts esp with the houses not being included in the costs of the CCTV at all. How is the best way of doing this?

If I don't get far, who is the organisation I need to contact if I need to bring this up any further? I am struggling to sleep (see the time of posting) because of the extra charges, the worries of the persistent flytippers finding a new place to dump stuff and me annoyed that the houses are not getting involved with the payments.

Another thing, the tenants in the social housing flats have no need to flytip stuff as 1, Most have a car and 2. If claiming certain benefits, then the council's bulky collection is free.