Storage Heaters

PMSG

My sister has moved onto an all electric retirement apartment with storage heaters. This is all new to me. I am finding it impossible to get help about choosing a tariff (or even a meter) to best control her electricity bills. The problem I have encountered is that many sources of help (eg. Uswitch) don't cover Economy 10 tariffs. Where can I go to get help about whether Economy 10, Economy 7 or flat rate metering will be best for my sister? How can I be sure that selecting a meter will not prevent her switching in future?

matelodave

What has she got at the moment - she will have to sign up and create an account with the existing supplier before she can change so it might be worth while giving it a short while to see how it goes.

Most supplier will offer an E7 tariff, E10 is harder to find and usually more expensive, so you may need to put a bit more effort into finding one.

It's not easy to guess how much energy she'll use over a year so use a compariosn site and use several estimates, say 7500, 10,000, 12500 and 15000kwh with something like a 30% and 40% offpeak/peak consumption. Thats possibly eight iterations (more if you use E10 and E7 tariffs) but it should give you some idea of her costs. You can then choose a tariff that looks like it will suit and then monitor her consumption to check

Gerry1

Sadly it was a very bad decision to go for all-electric property: it will cost an arm and a leg because off-peak electricity is about three times as expensive as gas, and peak about five.

Economy 10 is more bad news because it will probably be phased out quite soon, and there's little or no competition anyway, as you've discovered.

If it's a purchased property, gas is available and finances permit it then a wet gas central heating system would probably be the best bet. Much of the cost would be recovered because the property would be much more attractive and sell more quickly.

If not, you'll probably end up with E7 sooner or later depending on whether you jump or are pushed. Unfortunately, as they're on E10 it's likely that the heaters are old style boxes of bricks that aren't well insulated and are low capacity; on E7 they are likely to be too cool by late evening.

You could always try finding out the E7 times in your area (dial 105), waiting until the weather is really cold, turning the input control right up, the output control low (except late in the day), and manually switching the radiators off outside the E7 cheap rate times. If the results are acceptable then you could just switch to E7 (make sure the automatic switching hours are also changed). But be careful, once you've moved to E7 there's no going back !

If, as is probable, the old heaters are not happy with E7 hours then your best bet would be clever storage heaters such as Dimplex Quantum, provided that they are correctly dimensioned and programmed. They are more efficient because they waste less heat when it's not needed at night and have a fan to boost the output late in the afternoon and evening. If all else fails then you can top them up (sparingly !) with full price electricity.

Start giving meter readings straight away, otherwise the DD may rocket if she hasn't been paying her way. If she's also on a deemed tariff that will be mega-expensive, so act fast.

Richie-from-the-Boro

all electric retirement apartment

- could be anything
- most are flats
- gas not usually an option

Economy 10 tariffs

- agree E10 is non-competition and highest
- E7 best option

Dimplex Quantum

- lifelong defender of quantum
- not really needed
- if existing ones work ok

likely to be too cool by late evening

- only if its badly sized

solution

- badly designed sizing is usual by neglect
- simple .. .. extend ring an put extra 3.4 kw in living area
- job done

- I'm not a fan of fan, even Dimplex. Use biggest and fill it to your needs.
- fan usually blows on demand high price energy.
- I'm not a fan of dampers - should be welded shut.
- 50 years actual use in 3 different dwellings experience.

Gerry1

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

- fan usually blows on demand high price energy.

The instructions suggest that it normally uses only off peak energy (apart from the fan itself, which will use a negligible amount), and it only uses expensive peak electricity if Boost is selected.

PMSG

Thanks for helpful replies.

More background;

- it is a McCarthy and Stone retirement flat - gas is not an option.
- currently has a Economy 10 meter with three readings and two MPANs
- she is currently on standard variable tariff as her supplier E.ON withdrew its tariff and said she had to have a new meter - she did nothing about this not realising its significance
- whilst storage heaters are old I am not inclined to replace them
- seems like choice is between Economy 7 or Economy 10 - with all posters preferring 7
- however she will need a new meter. How can I be sure the Economy 7 meter she is given will be switchable between suppliers?
- if she switches to Economy 7, I assume her storage heaters and immersion heater will need their timers changing? Does this require professional help?

Thanks for your help - this feels like swimming in treacle.

Gerry1

No doubt Malc will be able to give full details next week, but I fear the choice is between Economy 7 and bankruptcy ! Once you've left E.On's E10 tariff there's no going back, and it's at best doubtful whether anyone else will offer it to a new customer. So right now she's paying a fortune (i) because it's a standard tariff rather than a deal, and (ii) because it's peak rate 24/7.

With an E7 meter you'll be able to switch to any E7 supplier. However, you may need to call an electrician to arrange that the storage heater circuit is only live during the E7 night rate periods.

Ideally there should be two immersion heaters, one on the switched (night) circuit for normal use and one on the permanent circuit that can be switched on if the water goes cold in the day. If there's only one immersion heater, make sure it's on the permanent circuit. It needs to have a local timer; make sure it's adequately rated and is not the mechanical type without battery backup that will switch at the wrong times after a power cut.

As she won't yet know her annual consumption it may be better to start off on an E7 tariff without onerous exit penalties. Also, think about the Priority Services Register and Warm Home Discount, if applicable.

Richie-from-the-Boro

- it'll take scores of years to get the investment in quantum back
- cans can be refurbished by anyone with correct (Screwfix) paint cheaply
- all "deemed" supply is their default most expensive
- switch to cheaper supplier with pre-agreed meter change
- e7=7 hours cheaper E10=10 hours cheaper
- the 7 hours are auto-switched on/off by the (area code) distributor
- so almost certainly no changes to anything

Knowledge

The higher the % of night use [I'm 60% night 40% day] the cheapest. I'd almost certainly install an additional big can. You will almost certainly need an on demand source of daytime / caught short heat. I've never used a damper open setting in all my years - I treat it as like a wallet put enough kW hours in storage @ 30% cheaper price for your needs.

CAC÷12=monthly payment plan, it'll never be in arrears and overpaying summer is in credit before the winter. Heat living room to comfortable °C and that's the 'best fit' for needs. 12 months of piping hot water and comfortable heating. Best of luck.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Change a smaller one for a 16 bricker and it will be capable of about 24.0kWh maximum input flat out over 7 hours and it will deliver 3.5kW per hour.

Fit (easy to wire an extra spur) any additional of any size and get the extra cheaper electricity "banked" kW needs supply needed. My existing ones are 31 years old, I have considered replacing with Quantum but I am 75 and this is MSE (grin)

Gerry1

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

it will deliver 3.5kW per hour.

From a supply at 50Hz per second?

Richie-from-the-Boro

gerry1 wrote: »

from a supply at 50hz per second? :d

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