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Euro Car Park Dept Recovery letter. UPDATE. CHARGE CANCELLED BY ECP
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My company (a multi national) have been leasing vehicles to employees for over 20 years so they should be aware of any laws regarding liability
If they are not replying to PCNs to give the name and address of the lessee/hirers, then they are leaving themselves liable in law, for every single one!
Try an appeal anyway in your name alone, giving your home address, so that at least the future correspondence comes to you alone and never to the company.
To ensure that, you may even have to admit to being the driver so that ECP will have no excuse to revert to the company. As I suspect the company will pay and charge you if they get another letter and you must avoid that.
But make no mistake, your company is WRONG if they don't understand their part in passing on liability. They'll learn when they are sued one day - or maybe not, maybe they are so stupid they just pay and charge the poor employees, when they get subsequent letters.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Thank you. I will read up on this and speak to the company.0
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read this thread where liability is spelled out clearly
your company is liable for all the invoices in their own name , not you
if they wish you to deal with it then they use an edna basher template to name the lessee or hirer (you) under a 7 year old law named POFA , until then they are liable and you are not liable
once this invoice is in your name , you deal with it as normal as lessee/hirer/keeper, its that simple
you wouldnt pay their diesel bill to texaco for them , or electric bill for the HQ , if they want out , its a simple letter or online appeal naming you as hirer or lessee (meaning day to day keeper)
this also preserves the fact that nobody knows who was actually driving , so keep it that way
they should stick to the law and if that law is 7 years old they have had 7 years for reading and compliancethe debt letter may have your name on it because somehow they have been told that you have liability , but you said the company received the letter and forwarded that debt letter to you, so its addressed to the company , not to you , meaning that the actual debt letter has your company name on it , not yours
my point is that YOU have not received a pcn (NTH) in your own name , so the fact that a third party is alleging that you owe a debt is because they somehow believe it to be true
my issue is not DRP, its the fact that your fleet management have not named you as hirer, so it appears you may have a debt letter or pcn with their name on it
you need a pcn to arrive at your address , in the post , from ECP themselves , holding you as liable and therefore not your employer
for exemption under POFA , your employer must name you as hirer , POFA is easily accessed through google search , please read it, but study the edna basher posts first , so you have relevance and context
I could tell DRP that you owe me £100 and they can add £60 on as no win , no fee , doesnt make it true , does it ? , you IGNORE DRPL , that is always the mantra on here , IGNORE , IGNORE , ignore
doesnt matter what your company tell you , unless its in your employment contract or lease/hire contract that you are liable for private invoices even if they are in the company name ? I dont think so
POFA makes the company liable in law unless they name the hirer or lessee, the real question is , did they follow the law and do that ? POFA is quite adamant on this matter , it has its own section devoted to liability for fleet , hire , lease , company vehicles to take out the ambiguity
if yes , then ECP reissue the pcn to you , in your name with your address on it, at that point your company are exempted from the whole saga, but not until they comply with the law, the law named POFA (for England and Wales)Coupon-mad wrote: »Clearly not. The law changed in 2012, 7 years ago, and it seems they are not aware.
If they are not replying to PCNs to give the name and address of the lessee/hirers, then they are leaving themselves liable in law, for every single one!
Try an appeal anyway in your name alone, giving your home address, so that at least the future correspondence comes to you alone and never to the company.
To ensure that, you may even have to admit to being the driver so that ECP will have no excuse to revert to the company. As I suspect the company will pay and charge you if they get another letter and you must avoid that.
But make no mistake, your company is WRONG if they don't understand their part in passing on liability. They'll learn when they are sued one day - or maybe not, maybe they are so stupid they just pay and charge the poor employees, when they get subsequent letters.
I wanted to provide an update on this PCN as things have progressed a bit since the last post...
1, I spoke to my employer who drafted a letter and email to Euro Car Parks and Debt Recovery Plus informing them that I was the day to day keeper of the vehicle at the time of the 'alleged' infringement and that any future correspondence should therefore be sent to me at my home address. My employer also sent written confirmation that they had not received any notices prior to the first from DRP.
2, I also sent a letter (by signed for recorded delivery) to Euro Car parks only confirming that I was the day to day keeper (not driver) and that as I hadn't received the two previous PCN's I would like the first letter from DRP to be treated as the original NTK / NTH. I also requested that they contact DRP and ensure that all future correspondence is sent to me at my home address now that my employer have confirmed me as day to day keeper. I have also requested that my employer ignore any future correspondence from DRP and do not pay them anything.
Today 18/11/2019 I received an email reply from Euro Car Parks along with a copy of the two original NTK and Final Notification Letter (both of which I or my employer never received) and an appeal rejection letter. The appeal rejection letter is addressed to my home address now and not my employers address. No proof of postage for the two original letters was provided.
This is the email I received...
Please find attached two letters of correspondence sent to the registered keepers address as provided by the DVLA.
Signage is clear in its intent and it is private land. There is signage upon entry, exit and throughout the car park.
Law of contract applies (signage) and it is the drivers responsibility at all times to ensure that they adhere to the terms and conditions of the car park.
Please be advised that appeal was received on the 14/11/2019 and made unsuccessful on the 18/11/2019 (please see attached).
Please note an appeal should have been made within 28 days from the date of the Parking Charge Notice or Notice to Keeper/Owner. As no appeal was submitted within this time frame – we are unable to accept your correspondence as this parking charge notice has been passed to a debt recovery agency.
Euro Car Parks can no longer assist.
Please contact DRPL 0208 234 6775 with regards to payment.
Kind regards,
Customer services
- The original NTK shows two close up photographs of a number plate in black and white, its not possible to make out if one is a front plate and one is a rear number plate from the picture but maybe they have cropped it.
- The appeal rejection letter basically says the same as the email above, appeals should be made within 28 days of the PCN / NTK and because it wasn't ECP are unable to accept my correspondence as it has been passed to DRP. All / any communication must now be with DRP.
Obviously it was impossible for me to appeal within 28 days of the PCN / NTK because the first letter my employer received was from DRP which was well outside of 28 days.
Please can someone (especially the members who previously assisted) provide me with some advice on how to progress ?
At the moment I am just ignoring DRP, they have my number from when I stupidly contacted them before reading and posting on the forum initially but to date I have just ignored their attempts to call.
They did send another letter to my employer but that was around the same time that my employer sent the letter out confirming me as the day to day keeper. I've not received anything in writing to my home address from DRP at the time of writing.
Any additional advice would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,0 -
Please can someone (especially the members who previously assisted) provide me with some advice on how to progress ?
At the moment I am just ignoring DRP,
Email Steve Clark and complain that you are the lesse/hirer of a company vehicle and when the company transferred liability, and named you as the keeper/lessee, you then appealed.
But ECP stated that you were too late to appeal. That cannot be the case. When a registered keeper firm has transferred liability to the hirer/lessee, the parking firm should start the clock again and post a fresh PCN to that hirer, and that person can certainly appeal and get a POPLA code.
So ask Mr Clark, why have you been told you were too late to appeal, when ECP have not even sent you a Notice to Hirer yet? They have changed their data to show your name and address, yet not actually transferred the right to appeal to you.
It is irrelevant that the case is with DRP because the registered keeper company did not received the PCN, only a DRP letter, and has rightfully transferred liability before legal action commenced.
With no NTH their case is doomed if they try a small claim, so ask Steve why ECP have mucked this up so badly and are not trying to pursue a the right person (as hirer) yet have withheld any NTH or appeal from that hirer.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Thank you very much Coupon-mad,
I really appreciate the advice you have taken the time to provide, will act accordingly and feedback any response.0 -
Coupon-mad wrote: »Carry on doing that. DRP are not to be contacted.
Email Steve Clark and complain that you are the lesse/hirer of a company vehicle and when the company transferred liability, and named you as the keeper/lessee, you then appealed.
But ECP stated that you were too late to appeal. That cannot be the case. When a registered keeper firm has transferred liability to the hirer/lessee, the parking firm should start the clock again and post a fresh PCN to that hirer, and that person can certainly appeal and get a POPLA code.
So ask Mr Clark, why have you been told you were too late to appeal, when ECP have not even sent you a Notice to Hirer yet? They have changed their data to show your name and address, yet not actually transferred the right to appeal to you.
It is irrelevant that the case is with DRP because the registered keeper company did not received the PCN, only a DRP letter, and has rightfully transferred liability before legal action commenced.
With no NTH their case is doomed if they try a small claim, so ask Steve why ECP have mucked this up so badly and are not trying to pursue a the right person (as hirer) yet have withheld any NTH or appeal from that hirer.
@ Coupon-mad - Email sent to Steve Clark this morning and a reply received already to say that he has passed it on to his colleague to investigate.
They will contact the Parking Operator to seek their feedback and then share their conclusion with me hopefully within 14 days.
Thanks' again for your support.0 -
UPDATE: 25/11/19
My employer today received another letter from DRP demanding (a slightly reduced) payment. This is despite Euro Car Parks and DRP being contacted by my employer to confirm that I was the lessee / day to day keeper of the vehicle.
In my letter to Euro Car Parks I also requested that they contact DRP and request that all future correspondence is sent to me (as the day to day keeper) at my home address. Either this hasn't happened or DRP are choosing to ignore it and continue to harass my employer in the hope that they will pay.
This additional letter and further complaint has been forwarded to the BPA.0 -
Coupon-mad said:Please can someone (especially the members who previously assisted) provide me with some advice on how to progress ?
At the moment I am just ignoring DRP,
Email Steve Clark and complain that you are the lesse/hirer of a company vehicle and when the company transferred liability, and named you as the keeper/lessee, you then appealed.
But ECP stated that you were too late to appeal. That cannot be the case. When a registered keeper firm has transferred liability to the hirer/lessee, the parking firm should start the clock again and post a fresh PCN to that hirer, and that person can certainly appeal and get a POPLA code.
So ask Mr Clark, why have you been told you were too late to appeal, when ECP have not even sent you a Notice to Hirer yet? They have changed their data to show your name and address, yet not actually transferred the right to appeal to you.
It is irrelevant that the case is with DRP because the registered keeper company did not received the PCN, only a DRP letter, and has rightfully transferred liability before legal action commenced.
With no NTH their case is doomed if they try a small claim, so ask Steve why ECP have mucked this up so badly and are not trying to pursue a the right person (as hirer) yet have withheld any NTH or appeal from that hirer.
@Coupon-mad and forum members.
Hello, its been a while since my last post regarding this issue but finally I have got somewhere.....
After making a complaint with the BPA what seems like an age ago, this week I received an email from them with their result.
Basically Euro Car Parks have agreed as a good will gesture (which made me laugh out loud) to accept the change in liability from my employer to myself as the day to day keeper of the vehicle and to revert the charge back to the original amount.
I have now received a 'Notice to Hirer' in my name, to my home address.
My question to you and the forum now is how do I handle it from here ?
Do I simply follow the instructions on the forum as I now have the opportunity to appeal etc ?
Thank you again for your support to date.
Regards,0 -
Yes, you use the appeal as written by Edna Basher, which you will find in the NEWBIE sticky first post towards the end after the standard appeal written in blue text.1
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Use the appeal, ECP reject, you then appeal to POPLA and win.
I wouldnt be happy with that. You had an *absolute right* for the NtH to be sent to you, there is no "goodwill" involved.1
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