Euro Car Park Dept Recovery letter. UPDATE. CHARGE CANCELLED BY ECP

bully74uk

Hello
Bit of a strange one but hopefully someone can provide me with some decent advice.

I lease a car from my employer that me and my partner are authorised and insured to drive.

The car is registered to my employers address

Obviously we (myself and partner) are liable for any traffic offences, parking tickets etc

As the car is registered to the company address any parking tickets, speeding tickets etc go their first and are then forwarded by our fleet department to us.

Today our fleet department forwarded me a letter from a debt recovery company that they received this morning demanding £138 for parking in a Euro Car Park controlled area without obtaining a ticket back in July.

My fleet department also sent me a headed letter explaining that this was the first and only correspondence they had received about the issue.

I called the debt recovery number to explain to them that the driver at the time does not recall the infringement and that my company have given me a written statement explaining their letter receiving process and confirming that they have not received any letters prior to the one issued today.

The debt recovery company told me that they will not accept any appeal and we either pay the full amount or don't.

So we have received no evidence of the infringement from Euro Car Parks ourselves (because the letters will have been addressed to the company) and the company have confirmed to me in writing that they have not received any of the (apparently 2) previous letters.

What do you think I should do ?

We don't want to be paying £138 when we don't even have proof of the infringement or even the details of it time etc.

The area where the infringement was supposed to have taken place currently has 3 hours free parking but according to the business owner that only came in a couple of months ago.

Im thinking about not paying on the basis that the letters will never have come to me (as they are addressed to the company) and the letter of support from the company.
Would this stand up ?

Any advice appreciated

Undervalued

The normal legal presumption is that correctly addressed UK mail delivered. So, if the parking company have proof of postage it will be a struggle (although not always impossible) to convince a court that it was not received.

If the fleet department then lost it, or failed to forward it to you as they should, you may have a claim against them for any losses that causes.

I will leave the validity or otherwise of the parking tickets to others!

Fruitcake

Thoroughly read the sticky thread for NEWBIES.

Never, ever, ever contact a debt collector. Post 4 of the NEWBIES explains why it is safe to ignore them.

Never, ever, ever phone a private parking company or their agents. The conversation is not worth the paper it is written on.

Complain to the BPA that the scammers have gone straight to debt crawlers without first issuing a PCN.

Private parking charges are not normally covered by lease/hire companies as they are not issued by any regulated authority. You need to check what your lease agreement actually says about them.

Send the hire/lease vehicle appeal template written by edna basher from post 1 of the NEWBIES to the PPC. State that you are the day to day keeper in accordance with the PoFA 2012, and since this is the first you have heard about this invoice you consider it to be the NTK.

Instruct the lease company that since you are dealing with this , they must not pay the charge under any circumstances.

bully74uk

Thank you, I will read through the NEWBIE post. I'm assuming it will tell me what all the abbreviations in your reply mean 😁

Fruitcake

bully74uk wrote: »

Thank you, I will read through the NEWBIE post. I'm assuming it will tell me what all the abbreviations in your reply mean 😁

Post 5. I suggest you print it off or write them out.

bully74uk

Fruitcake wrote: »

Post 5. I suggest you print it off or write them out.

Fruitcake, thank you for your guidance so far.

I have had a read through the NEWBIE thread including the abbreviation descriptions on post 5 so I'm a little clearer about things but still not 100% so I'm hoping you can clarify a few more items before I proceed.

In your reply (post #3) you suggest that I send an appeal template to the PPC (Euro Car Parks) stating I am the day to day keeper etc and that as I (or my employer) haven't received any prior letters, the invoice from Debt Recovery Plus should be treated as the NTK.

- Should I be asking them for anything else ?
- What can I hope to achieve from this letter ?
- Should I be requesting proof of postage from the supposedly 2 previous letters (that my employer are saying they didn't receive ?

'If' the driver of the vehicle did indeed park without obtaining a ticket then the driver would reluctantly pay the original charge (£45 I believe). What they definitely don't want to pay is the rip off additional charge due to not paying early (due to not receiving the letters)
Should I be explaining this in the letter ?

Im just kind of stuck as to what I need to be stating/asking based on my current situation.

Any additional guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Coupon-mad

Should I be requesting proof of postage from the supposedly 2 previous letters (that my employer are saying they didn't receive ?

No, in fact liability has never been transferred to you yet, so you are a stranger to this surely if the DRP letter is addressed to the company.

All the COMPANY (not you) need to do, is transfer liability to you as keeper and then you will be sent your own NTK (should be a NTH but they'll get it wrong!) to appeal from scratch, and win by not saying who was driving!

The Fleet Dept need to respond to the DRP letter as they would have done if it was the first ECP letter - you know, sending ECP/DRP a copy of the hire/lease agreement and naming you and giving your address.

That is the right procedure and until THEY (not you) do this, the COMPANY remain liable right now so it is in their interests for liability to be properly passed to you.

Stop phoning DRP, this is nothing to do with you - yet - but you want a NTH to appeal.

bully74uk

Coupon-mad wrote: »

No, in fact liability has never been transferred to you yet, so you are a stranger to this surely if the DRP letter is addressed to the company.

All the COMPANY (not you) need to do, is transfer liability to you as keeper and then you will be sent your own NTK (should be a NTH but they'll get it wrong!) to appeal from scratch, and win by not saying who was driving!

The Fleet Dept need to respond to the DRP letter as they would have done if it was the first ECP letter - you know, sending ECP/DRP a copy of the hire/lease agreement and naming you and giving your address.

That is the right procedure and until THEY (not you) do this, the COMPANY remain liable right now so it is in their interests for liability to be properly passed to you.

Stop phoning DRP, this is nothing to do with you - yet - but you want a NTH to appeal.

Thanks Coupon-Mad

The company (my employer) will not deal with it. They have told me I have to make any appeals.

They are the registered keeper of the vehicle that I lease from them and its their address on the V5 but its under my name. So the correspondance from DRP was addressed like this..

Not real business name (my employer)
C/O Not real business name (my employer)
John Smith (me, not my real name)
Town
County
Post code

From the conversation I have had with my company I have to pursue this.

So, I just want to be clear about exactly what I need to be saying to Euro Car Parks.

I only called Debt Recovery Plus the once and that was enough for me to realise not to bother again.

Thanks again.

Redx

read this thread where liability is spelled out clearly

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6057081/help-i-didnt-park-the-vehicle

your company is liable for all the invoices in their own name , not you

if they wish you to deal with it then they use an edna basher template to name the lessee or hirer (you) under a 7 year old law named POFA , until then they are liable and you are not liable

once this invoice is in your name , you deal with it as normal as lessee/hirer/keeper, its that simple

you wouldnt pay their diesel bill to texaco for them , or electric bill for the HQ , if they want out , its a simple letter or online appeal naming you as hirer or lessee (meaning day to day keeper)

this also preserves the fact that nobody knows who was actually driving , so keep it that way


they should stick to the law and if that law is 7 years old they have had 7 years for reading and compliance

bully74uk

Redx wrote: »

read this thread where liability is spelled out clearly



your company is liable for all the invoices in their own name , not you

if they wish you to deal with it then they use an edna basher template to name the lessee or hirer (you) under a 7 year old law named POFA , until then they are liable and you are not liable

once this invoice is in your name , you deal with it as normal as lessee/hirer/keeper, its that simple

you wouldnt pay their diesel bill to texaco for them , or electric bill for the HQ , if they want out , its a simple letter or online appeal naming you as hirer or lessee (meaning day to day keeper)

this also preserves the fact that nobody knows who was actually driving , so keep it that way


they should stick to the law and if that law is 7 years old they have had 7 years for reading and compliance

Apologies if I'm missing the point here but the correspondence from Debt Recovery Plus is in my name isn't it ?

As per my previous post the letter from DRP was addressed to me C/O my employers address.

When the PPC did a check on the Reg Number they will have been given those details (my name, C/O address would they not ?

My company (a multi national) have been leasing vehicles to employees for over 20 years so they should be aware of any laws regarding liability and they have made it clear that its down to me to dispute / appeal.

Regards,

Redx

the debt letter may have your name on it because somehow they have been told that you have liability , but you said the company received the letter and forwarded that debt letter to you, so its addressed to the company , not to you , meaning that the actual debt letter has your company name on it , not yours

my point is that YOU have not received a pcn (NTH) in your own name , so the fact that a third party is alleging that you owe a debt is because they somehow believe it to be true

my issue is not DRP, its the fact that your fleet management have not named you as hirer, so it appears you may have a debt letter or pcn with their name on it

you need a pcn to arrive at your address , in the post , from ECP themselves , holding you as liable and therefore not your employer

for exemption under POFA , your employer must name you as hirer , POFA is easily accessed through google search , please read it, but study the edna basher posts first , so you have relevance and context

I could tell DRP that you owe me £100 and they can add £60 on as no win , no fee , doesnt make it true , does it ? , you IGNORE DRPL , that is always the mantra on here , IGNORE , IGNORE , ignore

doesnt matter what your company tell you , unless its in your employment contract or lease/hire contract that you are liable for private invoices even if they are in the company name ? I dont think so

POFA makes the company liable in law unless they name the hirer or lessee, the real question is , did they follow the law and do that ? POFA is quite adamant on this matter , it has its own section devoted to liability for fleet , hire , lease , company vehicles to take out the ambiguity

if yes , then ECP reissue the pcn to you , in your name with your address on it, at that point your company are exempted from the whole saga, but not until they comply with the law, the law named POFA (for England and Wales)