PPS (Newton Abbot) parking charge

joben_jones

I'm not sure I'm rushing, but I've yet to respond to the NTK and looking at the advice and other cases listed in the Newbies thread, I can't see an angle that is applicable to appeal in this situation.

The signs are to standard. I was quite far outside any reasonable grace period. Paperwork seems watertight. My not checking the signs is my responsibility etc.

Perhaps I've missed something?

Fruitcake

You should respond to the NTK by sending the initial appeal template in blue text from post 1 of the NEWBIES.

Then, get more pics of the site and signage to show how they could easily be missed by a motorist approaching the entrance in a particular way or driving through the car park via a particular route before parking.
Signs high up on poles or obscured by foliage, or dirty or damaged will help your case.
Also get pics of the Pay Machine which is where the parking contract began when the "green button was pressed."

Look for any contradictory terms between signs.
Can the signs be read, especially the £100/60 charges, from a car length or more?

joben_jones

Just an update on this, thanks for all the replies so far.

Send off the appeal which has as expected been rejected, but they have given me until a little later on to still pay the reduced charge.

It isn't clear in the Newbies thread as to whether I should reply to them saying I still won't be paying, or just ignore it and wait to see if a Letter of Claim arrives.

Here are the signs in the car park;
https://imgur.com/a/SmT8bx5

As you can see, several are placed very high up, and although the main sign behind the meter mentions the charges, the wording on it is pretty small when compared to all the other signs around it telling you more generic information, and is not particularly predominant with how much other crap is all over the wall.

I still don't feel entirely confident about this, as I was close to 30 mins over my paid for time. Will my defence be going along the lines of;

'I didn't move my car because - even though I was back - there was no warden around, so I thought it was fine, I would have moved it if a) I knew there were ANPR cameras and b) If I knew the scale of the charges. I would have seen these signs if they were better, like the Beavis sign'?

Cheers

Coupon-mad

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75388988#Comment_75388988

Above is the standard advice for any IPC firm scam.

That signage is truly dreadful.

By the machine there are so many signs, ten or so(?) many of which are much larger in font than the PPS sign put high up on the left and nothing tells you that your parking session starts when you drive in and that you are being timed by ANPR, not from ticket purchase.

And in that first pic, look, PPS have managed to place a sign headed 'A 17th Century Quayside Merchants...' at a decent height to read...so that begs the question as to why have they deliberately perched the sign that mentioned £100 in tiny font (not like the Beavis sign then) some 3 feet higher, above a wooden rafter, waaay to high to read?

the car was sat in for a further 10-15 minutes while a phone call was made and some emails sent.

I was close to 30 mins over my paid for time.

Which was it? 15 mins over or 25 mins and do you mean after EXPIRY?

Do you still have the ticket from the machine so you KNOW the expiry time was exceeded, or is it that the 'total stay' from driving in? what are those timings?

SirSnogALot

Hi There,

Adding into this post, I'm in same position, at same car park

I have just got a NTK arrive today, from around first weekend of October.

My friend paid in cash, and I no longer have the receipt/ticket, as after I got back from the trip I cleaned the car of litter.

The NTK says my arrival/departure time and states "session expired" as reason for fine but does not state how long I paid or how long over I stayed etc, just evidence of the car arriving and leaving.

I've written the standard appeal and requested their evinced of payments, when the session actually expired and what grace period they are working on.

SirSnogALot

Have you decided to just wait or are you going to pay?

Seems we've had exactly the same situation, except I don't have the ticket so I'm not sure how long after I paid It ran out and guessing contacting them to request their evidence is not going to help....

joben_jones wrote: »

Just an update on this, thanks for all the replies so far.

Send off the appeal which has as expected been rejected, but they have given me until a little later on to still pay the reduced charge.

It isn't clear in the Newbies thread as to whether I should reply to them saying I still won't be paying, or just ignore it and wait to see if a Letter of Claim arrives.

Here are the signs in the car park;
https://imgur.com/a/SmT8bx5

As you can see, several are placed very high up, and although the main sign behind the meter mentions the charges, the wording on it is pretty small when compared to all the other signs around it telling you more generic information, and is not particularly predominant with how much other crap is all over the wall.

I still don't feel entirely confident about this, as I was close to 30 mins over my paid for time. Will my defence be going along the lines of;


Cheers

joben_jones

Coupon-mad wrote: »

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75388988#Comment_75388988

Above is the standard advice for any IPC firm scam.

That signage is truly dreadful.

By the machine there are so many signs, ten or so(?) many of which are much larger in font than the PPS sign put high up on the left and nothing tells you that your parking session starts when you drive in and that you are being timed by ANPR, not from ticket purchase.

And in that first pic, look, PPS have managed to place a sign headed 'A 17th Century Quayside Merchants...' at a decent height to read...so that begs the question as to why have they deliberately perched the sign that mentioned £100 in tiny font (not like the Beavis sign then) some 3 feet higher, above a wooden rafter, waaay to high to read?



Which was it? 15 mins over or 25 mins and do you mean after EXPIRY?

Do you still have the ticket from the machine so you KNOW the expiry time was exceeded, or is it that the 'total stay' from driving in? what are those timings?

I still have my ticket, I bought it only a few minutes after entering the car park. I left the car park close to 30 mins after my parking session expired, the timings given in PPS's letter relate to the ticket purchase time and car exit time.

As I said in an earlier post, I had returned to my car probably only 10 mins after my ticket expired, but stayed on the premises as I didn't realise it was an ANPR car park. I had a lot of luggage to rearrange and some calls/emails to do so sat in the car for a while.

I guess my question is this;
Is not knowing it was an ANPR car park because of bad signage a reasonable excuse for knowingly staying over my limit? Or, according to the law, should you not stay on the premises beyond your ticket time even if it were only a warden controlled car park?

I don't see how my not knowing about the ANPR, or the signage being insufficient for me to know the potential penalties, is relevant to me staying longer than I knew my ticket was for.

Coupon-mad

I guess my question is this;
Is not knowing it was an ANPR car park because of bad signage a reasonable excuse for knowingly staying over my limit?

Yes, because unclear signs have not drawn the £100 PCN to your attention - you only saw the tariffs in large font at the machine. Nothing about £100. Therefore no contract existed about that penalty.

Or, according to the law, should you not stay on the premises beyond your ticket time even if it were only a warden controlled car park?

There is no law about this, they make it up as they go along.

Well worth fighting, NOT PAYING, in my view.

joben_jones

Right, think I finally understand this now.

Really appreciate all the advice and patience thus far.

Will update when I have any more news ��

SirSnogALot

Thanks also, I have followed advice in this thread and newbies thread.

I've logged an appeal, will happily go to court and written to my MP to complain generally about the industry and specifically this company.

For anyone else, their details are as follows:

http://pps.uk.com

Premier Parking Solutions LTD (PPS)
Whose Registered office address is: 13 Devon Square, Newton Abbot, Devon, United Kingdom, TQ12 2HN Company number 06659134

General Manager/Company Director: Barrie Douglass

https://www.linkedin.com/in/barrie-douglass-354b0070/