PPS (Newton Abbot) parking charge

joben_jones

Hi guys,

Have read the Newbies thread, and the point near the beginning which says most cases are all the same, but wanted to check something as my case seems a little more clear cut than others I've looked at.

My car was parked in a small private car park last month for work, 2hrs parking was paid for and car was returned to a few minutes late, if I'm honest. Seeing that there was no warden around, and plenty of spaces free in the car park, the car was sat in for a further 10-15 minutes while a phone call was made and some emails sent.

I don't drive into town much, usually cycle, so little did I know they have ANPR car parks these days...

I've now had an NTK for 'Session expired' through the door, as the car was an extra half hour in the car park than paid for.

Having returned to the car park, the signage is very clear as to what the charges are, charges for breach of terms etc. but more importantly, the fact it is an ANPR car park. I just didn't pay attention to them as I'd never come across one before, was expecting a good old fashioned human warden.

QUESTION
As the signage is very clear, and as I was around 30 minutes over, is this case worth pursuing?

I don't see how I'd have a leg to stand on if it got to the court stage. Sure, it's a rip-off ticket as there were plenty of empty spaces so I'm hardly losing them revenue, but I can't really claim it was poorly signed, or a surprise ticket etc.

Thanks

KeithP

So you needed to visit the car park to see the signs after having received the PCN.

Signs couldn't have been prominent, could they, or the driver would've seen them first time around?

Of course you have good reason to appeal.

joben_jones

Hmm, when you put it that way... very good point.

Great, will get cracking on my appeal.

Appreciate the confirmation, sorry for another new thread!

Thanks

[Deleted User]

Hi have seen a lot of PPS signs around locally, they are all very small and you cant see the lettering until you actually get out of the car and strain your necks to look up. There are also no prominate signs at the entrance to warn of ANPR. Have you got proof that you paid for parking. I was wondering if you could appeal to the landowner (obviously the signage was in adequate )and ask them to get the PCN cancelled. I would also check that PPS have permission from the landowner to undertake enforcement.

[Deleted User]

suggest you have a look at British Parking Association Code of Practice :
B. Operational requirements in England and Wales.
8. Signs
21 . ANPR

Under Lord Denning's Red Hand Rule, the charge (being 'out of all proportion' with expectations of drivers in this car park and which is the most onerous of terms) should have been effectively: 'in red letters with a red hand pointing to it' - i.e. VERY clear and prominent with the terms in large lettering, as was found to be the case in the car park in 'Beavis'. A reasonable interpretation of the 'red hand rule' and the 'signage visibility distance' tables above and the BPA Code of Practice, taking all information into account, would require a parking charge and the terms to be displayed far more transparently, on a lower sign and in far larger lettering, with fewer words and more 'white space' as background contrast. Indeed in the Consumer Rights Act 2015 there is a 'Requirement for transparency':

(1) A trader must ensure that a written term of a consumer contract, or a consumer notice in writing, is transparent.
(2) A consumer notice is transparent for the purposes of subsection (1) if it is expressed in plain and intelligible language and it is legible.

The_Deep

I don't see how I'd have a leg to stand on

Do they have a contract with the landowner? Is the paperwork in order? Does the documentation comply with POFA?

joben_jones

Thanks for the further information, I will research the land owner. I do still have my ticket as well.

The signs mentioning ANPR on entry and definitely not readable from your vehicle, and the ones on the walls are placed quite high up.

This one however, is right behind the ticket machine and seems like it covers most of the points mentioned in the red hand rule;
imgur . com/iNbgKrJ.jpg

I just didn't read it as I was in a rush

Le_Kirk

Your link made live: -
https://imgur.com/iNbgKrJ.jpg

joben_jones

Thanks, won't let me post links due to being a new member.

Just walked past the car park actually and had another look. That sign is clear behind the machine, but the hourly rates are also listed on the machine, so I would have just looked at them and not given the sign a second glance.

[Deleted User]

Hi signs as I expected , check paperwork is in accordance with POFA, find the landowner, also contact your local MP FYI lifted this from PPS web site:
PPS specialises in locating land no matter what size or condition it may be in, and turning it into a profitable asset for the landowner, or organisation.
In my view Newton Abbot is full of charity shops , we should be encouraging genuine shoppers, not exposing them to disreputable parking companies and their practices.
PPS is a member of IPC , think advice is not even to bother with an appeal to IPC but check out newbies guidance at the start of this thread. Still follow through with contacting the landlord asking them to inform PPS to cancel the PCN also checking paperwork & contacting your MP.

waamo

Is that sign illuminated? If not how can you see it in the dark?