PCN for Stopping at Zebra Crossing

DAKOTA45

Sorry, I was just replying to a comment... I'll shut up.

adamhd

So looks like VCS have taken this further. Today I received a Claim Form. In the letter I sent to them I said that if they pursued this further I would contest jurisdiction on the basis that Southend Airport is covered by byelaws. “The London Southend Airport Byelaws 1997”. Do I use the checkbox during the AOS to contest jurisdiction or is there another process I should be following?   

KeithP

adamhd said:

So looks like VCS have taken this further. Today I received a Claim Form. In the letter I sent to them I said that if they pursued this further I would contest jurisdiction on the basis that Southend Airport is covered by byelaws. “The London Southend Airport Byelaws 1997”. Do I use the checkbox during the AOS to contest jurisdiction or is there another process I should be following?   

Contesting jurisdiction will cost you £100. I'll leave it to others to decide whether that is the right thing to do.

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

adamhd

Issue date was 14th Feb. Received through the post this morning. If I go down the contesting jurisdiction route I’ll definitely go after them for the costs. 

D_P_Dance

Why would you contest jurisdiction?  Do you understand what it means?  What have bye-laws got to do with it?  Are you confusing this with hearings held in Magistrates' Courts?

KeithP

adamhd said:

Issue date was 14th Feb. Received through the post this morning. 

OK, the following guidance may not be appropriate - depending on whether or not you decide to contest jurisdiction or not.

With a Claim Issue Date of 14th February, you have until Wednesday 4th March to file an Acknowledgement of Service. If possible, do not file an AoS before 20th February, but otherwise there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To file an AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox file linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou 

About ten minutes work - no thinking required.

Having filed an AoS, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 18th March 2020 to file your Defence.

That's over four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

When you are happy with the content, your Defence could be filed via email as suggested here:

1. Print your Defence.
   
2. Sign it and date it.
   
3. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
   
4. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
5. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
   
6. No need to do anything on MCOL, but do check it after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not, chase the CCBC until it is.
   
   After filing your Defence, there is more to do...
   
   
7. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire. Nothing of interest there. Just file it.
   
8. Wait for your own Directions Questionnaire from the CCBC, or download one from the internet - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-n180-directions-questionnaire-small-claims-track , and then complete it as described by bargepole in his 'what happens when' post linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES thread - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou"]
   
9. The completed DQ should be returned by email to the CCBC to the same address and in the same way as your Defence was filed earlier.
   
10. Send a copy of your completed DQ to the Claimant - to their address on your Claim Form.

KeithP

D_P_Dance said:

Why would you contest jurisdiction?  Do you understand what it means?  What have bye-laws got to do with it?  Are you confusing this with hearings held in Magistrates' Courts?

TD, did you read that this alleged infringement took place at Southend Airport?
The land may well be covered by bye-laws.

Coupon-mad

adamhd said:

Issue date was 14th Feb. Received through the post this morning. If I go down the contesting jurisdiction route I’ll definitely go after them for the costs. 

And they might do the same to you...and you might not succeed in that application.  Contesting jurisdiction doesn't work in railway VCS cases, due to a taxi case they use as authority to argue (successfully) that byelaws don't stop them offering a contract.   

I'd say contesting jurisdiction is not a slam dunk way to counter a claim and does risk £100, but that is up to you if you wish to run your case like that. If the Judge isn't with you on it, you might also get clobbered with VCS' costs for turning up and STILL have to move on the defending the claim.

I would defend the claim, if it were me.  Search the forum for Ransomes Airport defence & find the one from 2019 where the appeals in Ransomes and Jopson were used, to trump VCS v Crutchley and VCS v Ward (which are court errors - awful - but 'persuasive' on the lower courts, hence you need other 'persuasive' cases heard at the same level = appeal).

beamerguy

Reading your post # 1, 
You are required by law to stop at a zebra crossing if someone is crossing.  If a passenger decides to leave the vehicle whilst legally stopped, that is not the responsibility of the driver or the keeper. There is no law that covers this. If you decided not to stop and killed someone on a zebra crossing, would a judge consider this as legal ? 
Passengers do not feature in POFA2012 or bye laws and even though VCS often state they do not use POFA2012, it is the law  it is a VCS scam to collect money

adamhd

beamerguy said:

Reading your post # 1, 
You are required by law to stop at a zebra crossing if someone is crossing.  If a passenger decides to leave the vehicle whilst legally stopped, that is not the responsibility of the driver or the keeper. There is no law that covers this. If you decided not to stop and killed someone on a zebra crossing, would a judge consider this as legal ? 
Passengers do not feature in POFA2012 or bye laws and even though VCS often state they do not use POFA2012, it is the law  it is a VCS scam to collect money

Sure and this would be my first defence to any person of sound mind but I've been told by others on this forum that that is not a suitable defence as because it's a private road it's not really a zebra crossing. I have pictures supplied by VCS very clearly showing people in my way on the crossing so if I had not stopped I would had had to mow them down. The whole thing is ludicrous. The contravention here is stopping, rather than allowing someone to disembark. Unless they issues fines to every vehicle that stops at the "crossing" I don't see how this can be upheld.