Car Stolen, key hob used after car reported missing, insurer now won't pay out

Takmon

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Why then add "In fact it's almost impossible if you don't have insider access to the encryption schemes they use." Giving the distinct impression it is fact "almost impossible" to steal a modern car.

I would agree with that statement because I've never heard of a modern car being stolen without using the keys. You mentioned using a relay device which uses the signal from the car key, if there was no key in range then it wouldn't work so the key is still being used.

Mr.Generous

Wish the op would update this one, I'd love to know what the outcome was.

AnotherJoe

Takmon wrote: »

I would agree with that statement because I've never heard of a modern car being stolen without using the keys.

What? Theres even a video of it happening back up thread! And a simple search would find hundreds of examples. Just search for car relay theft.

You mentioned using a relay device which uses the signal from the car key, if there was no key in range then it wouldn't work so the key is still being used.

Late response as only just seen this.
If you read some of the references posted previously, you'd see that the relay technology just uses brute force a powerful transmitter to extend the range from a few cm to many metres - all you need is to get the signal and response inside the house and at worst case, to the back of the house if the keys are there.

Which is why there are now RFID pouches you can buy to prevent or mitigate against this.

The crazy thing is it would be trivially easy to prevent this with a simple and low cost modification to the key fob (inactivate after say 1 minute of no movement) but i dont believe any manufacturers have.

Takmon

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Late response as only just seen this.
If you read some of the references posted previously, you'd see that the relay technology just uses brute force a powerful transmitter to extend the range from a few cm to many metres - all you need is to get the signal and response inside the house and at worst case, to the back of the house if the keys are there.

Which is why there are now RFID pouches you can buy to prevent or mitigate against this.

The crazy thing is it would be trivially easy to prevent this with a simple and low cost modification to the key fob (inactivate after say 1 minute of no movement) but i dont believe any manufacturers have.

I'm not sure what points your trying to make in reference to my post. Car relay theft uses the cars keys to steal the car if the keys were not in the house in that video then the car couldn't be stolen.

Key relay only works if the car keys are within range and they can pick up a signal from it. This signal is then sent to a relay box. If the key only had a range of a few cm then this is how close they would have to get to the key to pick up the signal to relay it. In reality the key has a much larger range and they simply pick up this signal and relay it to next the car so it strong enough to think the key is next to it.

So therefore they need to use the key and it needs to be in range of the relay box. If the key is not there or too far away it will not work.

marlot

AnotherJoe wrote: »

...
The crazy thing is it would be trivially easy to prevent this with a simple and low cost modification to the key fob (inactivate after say 1 minute of no movement) but i dont believe any manufacturers have.

They've been around for a little while.

Ford even make the new keys available to (some) existing owners. https://www.whatcar.com/news/ford-tackles-keyless-car-theft-with-new-sleeping-key-fob/n19213