Car Stolen, key hob used after car reported missing, insurer now won't pay out

CavendishWobble

Thank you all for your replies. I feel the next steps for my friend is to:

- request the key fob data to see if it does show an interaction between the fob and car after it was stolen
- if it is then to check the real time clock of the fob

I just feel it is so crazy that if your key fob is used after your car is stolen then your insurance is void!

CavendishWobble

garth549 wrote: »

Edit to add: Of course none of the above explains how they managed to seemingly drive the car away. A modern car is extremely difficult to take without the keys or simulating the key-less entry. In fact it's almost impossible if you don't have insider access to the encryption schemes they use.

The theory is a 'transmitter relay' was used which is explained a bit more here:https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/keyless-car-relay-theft-advice-14496158

EdGasketTheSecond

garth549 wrote: »

Edit to add: Of course none of the above explains how they managed to seemingly drive the car away. A modern car is extremely difficult to take without the keys or simulating the key-less entry. In fact it's almost impossible if you don't have insider access to the encryption schemes they use.

There's plenty of techie stuff on eBay and AliExpress to aid making keys or bypassing immobilisers. If someone wants your car; they'll have it.

eddddy

CavendishWobble wrote: »

The theory is a 'transmitter relay' was used which is explained a bit more here:https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/keyless-car-relay-theft-advice-14496158

I'm no expert, but I guess when criminals start a car in that way, the key fob thinks it has just started the car normally, and records it as a 'normal car start'.

So it may be that 'normal car start' that the insurance co are challenging.

i.e. The fob's data makes it look like the car was started with the fob, which contradicts your friend's story.

CavendishWobble wrote: »

I just feel it is so crazy that if your key fob is used after your car is stolen then your insurance is void!

That's a bit of a misrepresentation! It might be fairer to say that if there is sufficient evidence that you have lied about the details of a claim, your insurance might be voided. (But your friend is disputing that they lied.)

[Deleted User]

Even the plod have been caught out doing this:

https://www.insurancetimes.co.uk/news/police-officer-convicted-after-fake-motor-theft-claim/1430238.article

Mistakes can be made so get all the data from the insurer to see how they are coming to this conclusion.

Was the car ever recovered or is it still missing?

sal_III

eddddy wrote: »

I'm no expert, but I guess when criminals start a car in that way, the key fob thinks it has just started the car normally, and records it as a 'normal car start'.

So it may be that 'normal car start' that the insurance co are challenging.

i.e. The fob's data makes it look like the car was started with the fob, which contradicts your friend's story.




That's a bit of a misrepresentation! It might be fairer to say that if there is sufficient evidence that you have lied about the details of a claim, your insurance might be voided. (But your friend is disputing that they lied.)

Theft using a relay wouldn't explain how/why the key fob was used after it was reported stolen. Unless the circled back after the call to the police and used the relay again which is lets face it highly unlikely.

AnotherJoe

garth549 wrote: »

Edit to add: Of course none of the above explains how they managed to seemingly drive the car away. A modern car is extremely difficult to take without the keys or simulating the key-less entry. In fact it's almost impossible if you don't have insider access to the encryption schemes they use.

That is wholly incorrect. Zero knowledge of encryption keys or schemes is needed
Check out car relay theft https://www.locksmiths.co.uk/faq/keyless-car-theft/

And watch an example here https://youtu.be/bR8RrmEizVg

It's big and growing problem.

lisyloo

CavendishWobble wrote: »

I just feel it is so crazy that if your key fob is used after your car is stolen then your insurance is void!

It’s not crazy for insurers to deal with red flags for fraud.

It’s possible that there is a technical issue here, but if it looks like fraud to the insurer they are entitled to deal with it.
This is in the interest of policyholders generally.
If they let every claim just go through without questions when something was off we’d all be much worse off.

There is a free complaints process and a free independent 3rd party process as well as the legal system for redress.

garth549

AnotherJoe wrote: »

That is wholly incorrect. Zero knowledge of encryption keys or schemes is needed
Check out car relay theft https://www.locksmiths.co.uk/faq/keyless-car-theft/

And watch an example here https://youtu.be/bR8RrmEizVg

It's big and growing problem.

Hence why I excluded "simulating the keyless entry"

AnotherJoe

garth549 wrote: »

Hence why I excluded "simulating the keyless entry"

Why then add "In fact it's almost impossible if you don't have insider access to the encryption schemes they use." Giving the distinct impression it is fact "almost impossible" to steal a modern car.