Car Stolen, key hob used after car reported missing, insurer now won't pay out

CavendishWobble

Asking for a friend but if you have experienced something similar it would be good to hear from you or any general advice

In a nutshell:

- My friend genuinely had his car stolen and therefore looked to make a claim on his insurance
- After a long period and interviews with the insurers etc they finally decided that because the key fob had been used AFTER the car was reported missing that they will not pay out.
- The car was seen on CCTV being driven away but it cannot tell who was driving it. They believe my friend took the car and is attempting insurance fraud.

Has anybody else been declined their insurance claim purely just because they may have used a key fob (be it accidentally) after reporting the car missing? To me it seems very unfair but if it is a common reason for not paying out then it will help provide some context.

Thank you

Mr.Generous

Key fob? I don't know what a key hob is. If they have used the key fob what have they used it for? If a button has just been pushed then so what - my grandaughter does that sometimes and its got nothing to do with the insurance company if its out of range of the car.

TadleyBaggie

Genuinely mystified what technology could tell them if a key fob has been pressed. Internal logs?

CavendishWobble

Yes sorry key FOB not hob. My friend does not recall pressing it after reporting it missing so it would have been accidentally pressed or maybe a pet or friend etc. That is the only reason they are not paying out.

CavendishWobble

TadleyBaggie wrote: »

Genuinely mystified what technology could tell them if a key fob has been pressed. Internal logs?

Keys were handed to the insurer and they claimed to have tested it and results were that it was used after the car was reported missing. But no data has been shared.

molerat

Raise a complaint with the insurer and go on to the FOS if necessary.

elsien

Subject access request for the data they think they have?

Mr.Generous

Some keys do hold data, BMW among others I believe. It may be that the data recorded indicates the remote wasn't just pressed but communicated with the vehicle. If the remote has a rolling code security they can tell if it got a new code sent from the car for the next use after a successful locking and unlocking cycle. That would be interesting if it happened after the car was reported stolen. They should provide the data to be fair. I guess they are trying to claim witholding it helps them detect fraud in future.


From a webpage about BMW keys (they hold more data than anyone elses)

...plugged the BMW key fob into the Abrites decoder and almost instantly, it read out a significant amount of data, including the Vehicle Identification Number, mileage, fuel level, and last time driven. Newer keys are also storing GPS data.

eddddy

Mr.Generous wrote: »

From a webpage about BMW keys (they hold more data than anyone elses)

...plugged the BMW key fob into the Abrites decoder and almost instantly, it read out a significant amount of data, including the Vehicle Identification Number, mileage, fuel level, and last time driven. Newer keys are also storing GPS data.

The page that Mr.G seems to be quoting from is here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcwebertobias/2015/09/24/another-reason-not-to-steal-cars-key-fobs-now-store-a-ton-of-data/#462468695013

Interestingly, it goes on to say:

In Europe, the insurance carriers require the owner to produce their car keys for examination upon making a report. Virtually no one understands that the data contained in their keys can be used against them in a criminal prosecution for attempted insurance fraud, or a denial of claim.

Case in point: the owner files a police report that his car was stolen three days ago. He turned over his keys to prove that they were not left in the vehicle or given to the thieves. What the driver did not know was that the memory in the key logs the last time the car was driven and the ending mileage. In this particular case, the information on the keys showed that the car had been driven the day before, which meant it had to be a false claim.

(But obviously, sometimes news stories contain 'exaggerations'.)

Sea_Shell

Wow! I never knew that!!! Even our own car keys are spying on us now!

Here's hoping Vauxhall keys are thick!!

I've nothing to hide, but still, that's the thin edge of the wedge, in the name of "security".

garth549

This is really interesting. You need to find out on what 'data' they are relying on.

If it's simply that the key fob was 'pressed' at x time then that proves absolutely nothing. Mine presses accidentally in my pocket sometimes.

If the key fob logs that it successfully communicated with the car at x time then this still doesn't necessarily prove that it wasn't stolen. The internal RTC (real time clock) could be incorrect on the key fob or car.

The thieves could even have stolen the car and parked it nearby but close enough to still be in range. This is typically done with a stolen vehicle to make sure it doesn't have any tracking technology before they move it on.

Edit to add: Of course none of the above explains how they managed to seemingly drive the car away. A modern car is extremely difficult to take without the keys or simulating the key-less entry. In fact it's almost impossible if you don't have insider access to the encryption schemes they use.