To Amex...or not to Amex!

Ben8282

I don't think the question here is so much one of Amex acceptance which is quite good these days but more one of if the OP will actually spend enough to obtain any real benefit from this card.
Obviously I know nothing of the OP\s credit card spending habits but their statement that their sole credit card at the moment is a NewDay issued Debenhams master card gives me the impression that their monthly credit card spend is not particularly high. I may of course be wrong. The Amex BA Avios card may well be a good product but is it the right or best product for the OP?

A poster above mentions flying First Class to New York but also mentions redeeming 160,000 avios in addition to,paying £1300 and using a two-for-one voucher. The standard no-fee card gives a 5,000 avios welcome bonus subject to a £1000 pend in the first three months and avios are rewarded at the rate of 1 avios per £1 spent. To avoid giving false hope to the OP, the OP should understand that they would have to spend a further £155,000 on the card to obtain this reward in addition to paying out £1300 in taxes and somehow qualifying for a 2 for 1 voucher by spending .£20,000 in the first year.
This is fine for higher spenders but not for those who spend less.

Nick_C

OP -

(1) if neither you or you wife have had a personal Amex card in the last two years and

(2) you can spend £12000 in 15 months and

(3) you are willing to pay about £235 in card fees

You can earn 107,000 Avios and a two for one voucher. This would allow you and your wife to fly to NY and back in Business Class (on off peak days), but you would have to pay a redemption fee of about £660 each. 107000 Avios should be worth at least £1000 if used wisely.

Alternatively,

(A) if neither you or you wife have had a personal Amex card in the last two years and

(B) you can spend £5000 in 5 months and

(C) you are willing to pay about £86 in card fees

You can earn 96500 Avios. This would allow you and your wife to take at least 5 and up to 12 return economy flights each to Europe on off peak days. Redemption fees on short haul flights are £35 return.

The best way to use Avios is short haul in economy or long haul in Business or First. It is not worth using avios on long haul economy flights, because of the high redemption fees.

On top of this, you can earn Avios by converting Tesco Club Card Points, shopping through shopping.ba.com (instead of a cashback site, doing surveys (https://www.rewardsforthoughts.co.uk/ - 600 Avios sign up bonus) and looking out for special offers (1000 Avios on your first order of Laithwaites Wine for example).

I will put the detail of how to get 107000 Avios in a different post, and refer you to the "Avios University" articles at https://www.headforpoints.com

Nick_C

Get an existing AMEX card holder to refer you for an Amex Starwood Preferred Guest card

This card earns 3 Marriott (Starwood) points for every pound spent. You can transfer Marriott points to Avios at the rate of 3 Marriott points = 1 Avios. But for every 60000 Marriott points you convert, you get a bonus of 5000 Avios. So 60000 Marriott = 25000 Avios. This only applies to increments of 60000 Marriott points. So 90000 Mariott points gets you 35000 Avios, 120000 Mariott points gets you 50000 Avios.

The Starwood Preferred Guest programme is now called Marriott Bonvoy, but the name of the Amex card has not changed.

This card has an annual fee of £75. The fee is refunded pro rata when you cancel the card. If you cancel the card after 3 months, you will only have paid £19. But always get a new Amex card before cancelling an existing one.

Amex Starwood Preferred Guest

Spend £1,000 in 3 months for a 33000 SPG points sign up bonus (you)
Get 3000 SPG points for spending £1000 (3 points per pound spent)

Refer your wife for an Amex Starwood Preferred Guest Card
9000 SPG points referral bonus (you)

Wife’s Amex SPG Card

Spend £1,000 in 3 months
33000 SPG points sign up bonus (wife)
3000 SPG points from spending (wife)

Get wife to refer you for an Amex Preferred Rewards Gold Card
9000 SPG points referral bonus (wife)

Total SPG points: 90000 (in two separate Marriott Bonvoy accounts belonging to you and your wife)
Call Marriott (Starwood) to transfer points from one account to the other
UK Phone number 020 7012 7312

Once your points have been combined with your wife’s, transfer 90000 points to BA Executive Club
3 SPG points = 1 Avios so 30000
Plus a 25% bonus – 5000 Avios
Total of 90000 Marriott points converted to 35000 Avios

Amex Preferred Rewards Gold Card

The Amex PRGC is free for the first year
You will get two free entries to private airport lounges
You will earn 1 Membership Reward point for each full £ spent
You can transfer MR points to Avios. Minimum transfer 1000 points, then in increments of 500
1 MR point converts to 1 Avios
no sign up bonus, because you got one on the Starwood Card

Once you receive your PRGC:-
Pay off your Starwood card and cancel it
ask for a Supplementary Amex PRG card for your partner on your account

A supplementary card is a second card on your account for a trusted friend or family member. The person named on the supplementary card is not an account holder in their own right. They are simply someone authorised by you to use your account with their own card. A supplementary card does not involve a credit check. You can see everything that a supplementary cardholder spends on your account. You are responsible for paying all the spending on your account.

Your wife only has to get the supplementary card. She doesn’t have to use it. When Amex issue the supplementary card, they will give you the 3000 point bonus.

3000 MR points supp card bonus (you)
Refer your partner for their own Amex PRGC
6000 MR points referral bonus (you)

Wife receives her own PRGC card, and adds you as a Supplementary card holder
3000 MR points,supp card bonus (wife)
no sign up bonus for your wife, because she got one on the Starwood Card
Your wife gets a lounge pass with another two free entries

Your wife should close her SPG card at this stage. If the refund of the fee leaves the account in credit, Amex customer services can transfer this to her PRGC account.

Your wife refers you for a BA Premium Plus card from her PRGC
6000 MR points referral bonus (wife)

18000 MR points to be converted to Avios.

BA Premium Plus Card

The Amex BAPP card has an annual fee of £195
The fee is refunded pro rata if you cancel the card or downgrade to the free BA card
You earn 1.5 Avios for every £1 spent
Spend £10k in a year to get a two for one voucher (two people travel for the avios usually needed for one ticket. The redemption fee, which can be as much as £670 in business class to the US, must be paid for each passenger).

Spend £3,000 in 3 months to get 26000 Avios Sign Up Bonus (you) plus 4500 Avios from spending

Refer wife for a free BA Amex card
9000 Avios Referral bonus (you)

apply for a Supplementary BA card for your partner on your account
3000 Avios bonus for getting a supplementary card

Wife receives her own free BA card, and adds you as a supplementary cardholder
1000 Avios supp card bonus (wife)

At this stage, you have
43,500 Avios from BA cards
18,000 Avios from PRG cards, and
35,000 Avios from SPG cards

Total 96,500 Avios

You have spent £5000 in six months (or less)

If you cancel the BAPP now (downgrade to the free card), you will have paid about £86 in card fees (after refunds).

If you want a "two for one" voucher, then spend a further £7k on the BAPP card, ensuring you spend £10k in the first year of holding the BAPP card. Any spending on your wife supplementary card on your account counts towards the £10k spending target. (Spend on her own free card does not count towards the target. That account is totally separate.)

Spend a further £7,000 in 9 months (2nd option)

10500 Avios from additional spending
Two for one voucher

Card fees SPG £38 (£75*2 for three months)
BA£195 for 12 months

Total spend £12,000 in 15 months

Total 107000 Avios
Worth at least £1000 if used wisely

SCUD

You guys are amazing and very helpful and I can't thank you enough for your detailed replies and breakdowns.

I will try to answer some of the questions here and hope this thread can help others later:

Nick_C wrote: »

Where do you want to fly to? Do you want to fly in Economy or Business (or First)?

We have a kid and we would fly more towards South Europe and the MiddleEast. We usually fly Turkish, BA, Emirates, and Qatar Airways. We never flew a Business or a First Class, and with a child now I don't think we can afford it soon.

2ilent8cho wrote: »

Thanks to that Amex card i flew First Class with a friend to New York this summer. If i booked cash BA's web site wanted £12000 for 2 people on the same flight! i paid £1300 (Tax) + 160,000 Avios and one 2 for 1 Voucher from the BA Amex card.

I put almost all my spending via that Amex card, coupled with bonuses and the BA eStore and Tesco i managed to get my points up very quickly.

My year resets on Oct 12th for another 2 for 1 Voucher and i have enough Avios to go again First Class, so this card will next year give me thousands in value.

You also get Amex offers like spend X amount get X amount back as statement credit. Like currently spend over £30 and get 5% back at Morrisons, or spend £20 + at Papa Johns get £5 back.

I pay my Council Tax and Water who do not take Amex via Billhop to use Amex indirectly. Most retailers do take Amex, though some places it does not work contactless like Asda so have to still use Chip & Pin. I cancelled my EE Direct Debt and pay that manually each month with my Amex, i really don't let a point slip.

Get either the Tesco Clubcard or Natwest Rewards Mastercard credit card for places you cannot in anyway use Amex to make sure you milk every last point and convert to Avios via their reward schemes.

Basically put the effort into getting the points and the Amex BA Premium card is the best value credit card out there in my opinion.

I will do the same with my council tax as i pay it currently via direct debit.
I have Tesco club card and I converted the other day £2.5 of vouchers to 600 Avios, I guess.
I will consider the premium BA Amex.

Ben8282 wrote: »

I don't think the question here is so much one of Amex acceptance which is quite good these days but more one of if the OP will actually spend enough to obtain any real benefit from this card.
Obviously I know nothing of the OP\s credit card spending habits but their statement that their sole credit card at the moment is a NewDay issued Debenhams master card gives me the impression that their monthly credit card spend is not particularly high. I may of course be wrong. The Amex BA Avios card may well be a good product but is it the right or best product for the OP?

A poster above mentions flying First Class to New York but also mentions redeeming 160,000 avios in addition to,paying £1300 and using a two-for-one voucher. The standard no-fee card gives a 5,000 avios welcome bonus subject to a £1000 pend in the first three months and avios are rewarded at the rate of 1 avios per £1 spent. To avoid giving false hope to the OP, the OP should understand that they would have to spend a further £155,000 on the card to obtain this reward in addition to paying out £1300 in taxes and somehow qualifying for a 2 for 1 voucher by spending .£20,000 in the first year.
This is fine for higher spenders but not for those who spend less.

We are not high spenders family but our spending graph goes up and down through the year.
we witness high spending when the time of the car insurance and car breakdown cover comes. we have commuting expenses, nursery, shopping, utility bills, rent, council tax..etc

our monthly spending usually hoovers around £2000-£2500, but sometimes it shoots to £3000-£3500 when we go in a holiday or it was time for the insurance and unexpected car breakdowns.

I and my wife agreed that our goal when getting the Amex BA card or any other reward cards is not mainly just to get the offers (free flights). Instead, we just use it instead of NewDay Debenhmas card to get something valuable rather than just clothes vouchers.

Our family is growing and the expendture too, so we thought we may get a card with good saving return.

SCUD

2ilent8cho wrote: »

I pay my Council Tax and Water who do not take Amex via Billhop to use Amex indirectly.
.
.

Get either the Tesco Clubcard or Natwest Rewards Mastercard credit card for places you cannot in anyway use Amex to make sure you milk every last point and convert to Avios via their reward schemes.

Basically put the effort into getting the points and the Amex BA Premium card is the best value credit card out there in my opinion.

Billhop charges a percentage, does it affect much of the savings you make?

My wife has Natwest Rewards card but she doesn't use it as we did not know about the Avios thingy. How many Rewards points Natwest give for every £1?

2ilent8cho

SCUD wrote: »

Billhop charges a percentage, does it affect much of the savings you make?

My wife has Natwest Rewards card but she doesn't use it as we did not know about the Avios thingy. How many Rewards points Natwest give for every £1?

Well if i value 1 First Class ticket at £6000 paying a £12/14 over a year in a charge for using Billhop is nothing. Just depends on how you value the points on how much of a fee you are willing to take as a hit.

Natwest give 0.05% cashback on transactions , when you reach £10 you can convert to 1170 Avios.

Ben8282

This thread is hilarious.

Billhop charge a 2.95% fee and is intended for individuals who want to pay their bills by credit card because they can't afford to pay them without using a credit card. There is no way that the rewards earned on the transaction will be of greater value than the fee charged by billhop.

Are you sure that your local council accept Amex cards for the payment of council tax?
You mention rent. Are you sure your landlord will accept Amex cards?
Are you sure that all your utilities and the child's nursery will accept Amex? ETC
Not sure if the spending mentioned above refers to your total monthly spend or your credit card spend but I suspect the former. How much of it could realistically be put through a credit card?

What I am trying to do is point out that all that glitters is not gold and that you need to be realistic in your expectations in order to avoid disappointment when you realise just how long it is going to take you to save up enough avios for your 3 economy class tickets to wherever you want to go and how little the actual saving may be once you have pad the taxes and other charges.

Nick_C

Ben8282 wrote: »

This thread is hilarious.

Billhop charge a 2.95% fee and is intended for individuals who want to pay their bills by credit card because they can't afford to pay them without using a credit card. There is no way that the rewards earned on the transaction will be of greater value than the fee charged by billhop.

I disagree. Suppose the only way you could spend £3k in 3 months is by using Billhop. You would pay Billhop £88.50 in fees. Charging the transactions to a new BAPP Amex would get you 30632 Avios, which I would value at at least £300.

That's an extreme example. Billhop is sometimes a useful tool for hitting a spending threshold that unlocks a particular bonus. I wouldn't recommend it for regular use though.

On the issue of Council Tax, my local council doesn't accept payments by Amex. But I now pay my Council Tax with my Amex card.

You may think this thread is hilarious. In two and a half years, I have made 4 long haul return trips in Business or First using Avios, and I have a further trip in November. I think I'll have the last laugh.

SCUD

Ben8282 wrote: »

This thread is hilarious.

Billhop charge a 2.95% fee and is intended for individuals who want to pay their bills by credit card because they can't afford to pay them without using a credit card. There is no way that the rewards earned on the transaction will be of greater value than the fee charged by billhop.

Are you sure that your local council accept Amex cards for the payment of council tax?
You mention rent. Are you sure your landlord will accept Amex cards?
Are you sure that all your utilities and the child's nursery will accept Amex? ETC
Not sure if the spending mentioned above refers to your total monthly spend or your credit card spend but I suspect the former. How much of it could realistically be put through a credit card?

What I am trying to do is point out that all that glitters is not gold and that you need to be realistic in your expectations in order to avoid disappointment when you realise just how long it is going to take you to save up enough avios for your 3 economy class tickets to wherever you want to go and how little the actual saving may be once you have pad the taxes and other charges.

I understand what you are trying to say.
From all the information above I can see that Amex benefits, despite it might not be so rosy and luxurious to me based on my current spendings, they sound better than what I am getting now from Debenhams Card.

I think I will give Amex BA (the non premium) a try and see what it gives me in one year, and I will let you guys know.

Ben8282

Nick_C wrote: »

In two and a half years, I have made 4 long haul return trips in Business or First using Avios, and I have a further trip in November. I think I'll have the last laugh.

I am not saying that you havn't. The point that I have been trying to make here is that Mr or Mrs average should not be misled into believing that this sort of reward is achievable simply by charging their weekly groceries shop, petrol and the occasional meal out to the card and that a SIGNIFICANT spend would be required.