Comparison WITHOUT Smartmeter

[Deleted User]

spot1034 wrote: »

If they'd just been rolled out area by area, street by street regardless of who your supplier was (which would have been a much more efficient way of doing it) and had just been referred to as 'new generation', 'upgraded' or something along those lines, I doubt there would have been much objection and most of us would probably have them by now.

That was the best and most efficient way but the Government changed the goalposts, interfering one again, and made each individual supplier responsible for the smart meter installations rather than what we used to do and every other country did on smart meter roll out and use the local District Network operators, a or their contractors for electric meters and Transgo replace gas meters to be be in charge. This way they could just swarm down each street by street and get them done quickly and cheaply.
I have friends who left us on the meter reading side and have reported back to me just how slow their day can be. They install only a three or four on a good day, one on a bad day working for either Eon and G4S , but each day consists of many miles driving here and there between properties wasting time behind the wheel. At least meter fitters can be sure of a job for life ! forget about 2024..add another 30 years .They will then be employed changing the smart gas meters who s battery has died after 8 to 10 years..
I watched Yorkshire Electricity Board workers /Npower just stick to one area replacing all the old token meters which used paper strips to the key and card prepay meters. The whole operation was done in a couple of years mostly except for the ones denying access.

Jakubk

Gerry1 wrote: »

As explained previously in one of your umpteen similar threads, you can opt for Variable Direct Debit with some companies, very similar to paying in a restaurant for your meal. No build up of credit and no need to make any journeys to the bank.

Similarly, forget the standing charge red herring and just search for the lowest total price for your measured annual usage in kWh.

As others have repeatedly suggested, why don't you just provide the first part of your postcode together with your usage in kWh so that forumites can number crunch the best solution for you?

If you have stalked my threads you will know I can't do direct debit so please stop TELLING me to do something I have explicitly said I DON'T want. If you can't provide any help, try moving on the the next thread.

Even if my banking supported DD which it does NOT, I had an account years ago that could and the energy company made a mistake and charged me 2500 because of faulty equipment. They denied it for six months until it was proven by a 3rd party. It took me 2 years to get my money back on offset.

Some years before that I had a BT take £745 out of my account 5 times, cleaned out my back account, caused things to bounce and charges galore. So no thanks. When I get a bill I can verify it and dispute it and choose not to pay until they get it right. Even this month Toto has billed me around 100% over what they promised and if I had direct debit I would be screwed trying to get it back. Just as I was screwed by Solarplicity for £160.

The fact is (according to BBC you and yours) the energy companies are sitting on 3bn of overcharges, not fit for puspose OFGEM does not make them pay it back but feature their balance more prominantly. When a consumer on their show made a request for the £3000 they owed him it took months, despite the fact that the OFGEM unenforced rules say it has to be paid back within 28 days. Quite why a multibillion pound organisation needs 28 days to pay back a customer their own money is beyond me. Faster payments can pay people in two hours so 7 days would be more than adequate.

It is easy for you to say forget the "Standing Charge Red Herring" because you probably do not live in UK poverty. For me it is simple, I cannot afford standing charges, even if the energy rate is a fraction lower, I just can't afford it, so I have to go without heating. All for the greed of these companies that have been given a licence to steal from out pockets.

I have put my postcode in MSE, uSwitch and Money Supermarket, it came up with Northumbria Energy which has a chequered history and cannot even give me a quote on the website. Scottish Power was another but it requires a smart meter so no way I did not want to have a long long post because people lose the will to live so yes I made a several posts for different things.

As so many have a gun to your head in terms of discount I would have thought it would be possible to have the price comparison website have a tick box saying "No need for smart meter",

Out of curiousity what happens to people who have a smart meter already and being SMET1 it does not work, do they put their own in or wait for SMET2?

Jakubk

Houbara wrote: »

That was the best and most efficient way but the Government changed the goalposts, interfering one again, and made each individual supplier responsible for the smart meter installations rather than what we used to do and every other country did on smart meter roll out and use the local District Network operators, a or their contractors for electric meters and Transgo replace gas meters to be be in charge. This way they could just swarm down each street by street and get them done quickly and cheaply.
I have friends who left us on the meter reading side and have reported back to me just how slow their day can be. They install only a three or four on a good day, one on a bad day working for either Eon and G4S , but each day consists of many miles driving here and there between properties wasting time behind the wheel. At least meter fitters can be sure of a job for life ! forget about 2024..add another 30 years .They will then be employed changing the smart gas meters who s battery has died after 8 to 10 years..
I watched Yorkshire Electricity Board workers /Npower just stick to one area replacing all the old token meters which used paper strips to the key and card prepay meters. The whole operation was done in a couple of years mostly except for the ones denying access.

I have relatives in France and they are being forced to have but I gather they are having it done as you say. In Germany they have kicked it years into the long grass and have no intention of rolling it out in the near future, they are in recesssion.

Having the same high quality meter that worked with all suppliers and provided an API to our own data or the app of an energy company that would be far too simple.

Using the Fon network to transmit with a backup of a corporate deal with Vodafone or O2, again far to efficient.

No let's spend 13bn and roll out uninsulated tat from China and India, get it for £4.99 but charge the conumer £475, yet that makes total senses.

Oh and let's gamble on energy prices so much so that we make 3 times more money on gambling than we actually charge customers for, but let's use the price we inflated by gambling to beetch to OFGEM that the wholesale market prices justify our disgusting prices.

No of course we should not pass on all the saving we made from employing meter readers or the IT savings or the cash flow savings from moving everyone to monthly billing.

Meanwhile, let's barter or sell customers data to marketing companies, credit reference agencies and whoever else wants to buy it.

I blame the Government and OFGEM for all of this.

We need a lean n mean regulator with teeth who is totally focused on the consumer. What was it BJ said, oh yes F business.

Jakubk

Gerry1 wrote: »

Once again you are misrepresenting me. It is a red herring to think that you can magically save £200 p.a. simply by finding a tariff without a standing charge. As I've made clear several times in these half dozen threads by the same OP, you need to determine the TOTAL costs based on the measured annual usage. Obviously, these costs will include the standing charge(s), plus the metered units, plus VAT (plus any exit fees, if incurred).

Apart from largely irrelevant exceptional cases such as lock-up garages, holiday homes and empty properties, the cheapest tariffs may or may not include standing charge(s), that's the important point. The red herring is that if you blindly select a tariff with no standing charge you may well find that the high unit rates will end up making the overall cost more expensive.

I am sorry but you are wrong, there used to be at least three providers who offered no standing charges and guaranteed lower rates than the top six.

Ebico used to be the main player, now they use the holiday home model.

Solarplicity also did it and I can tell you at that time it worked, it was the first time I could afford to heat my home. My health improved because I bothered to cook, I had four meds for malnutrician, .

So forgive me if I am passionate about finding an energy suppier that does not insist on having it's hand in my wallet, giving me sheeeeet I do not want or need and charging me for the privilege.

I have worked out the Total charges and I can't afford them. I know that Price Comparison sites to not have all the deals out there so I ask on here, if it upsets you that I break down the concerns I have you can feel free to use the ignore function of this website and you will no longer see my posts.

Robin9

Jakubk wrote: »

................
I have worked out the Total charges and I can't afford them. ....................

We have asked before - what is your consumption and location ?

Happy to try and help but without that info I can't.

What you are asking for low costs, no standing charges etc isn't going to happen but we can identify the lowest cost for you.

[Deleted User]

Jakubk wrote: »

I am sorry but you are wrong, there used to be at least three providers who offered no standing charges and guaranteed lower rates than the top six.

Ebico used to be the main player, now they use the holiday home model.

Solarplicity also did it and I can tell you at that time it worked, it was the first time I could afford to heat my home. My health improved because I bothered to cook, I had four meds for malnutrician, .

So forgive me if I am passionate about finding an energy suppier that does not insist on having it's hand in my wallet, giving me sheeeeet I do not want or need and charging me for the privilege.

I have worked out the Total charges and I can't afford them. I know that Price Comparison sites to not have all the deals out there so I ask on here, if it upsets you that I break down the concerns I have you can feel free to use the ignore function of this website and you will no longer see my posts.

He s not wrong .No standing charge tariffs only benefit a few super low users or long term vacants, away on long hols, in the nick etc.
Standing charges are paid to the people who have to upkeep the pipes and wires ..you seem to think its some sort of con .There has always been standing charges ever since meters were installed in properties
There will be no comparison sites which flag up suppliers who do not offer, at the moment, smart meters..Bulb are one but that could end tomorrow if OFGEM give them a push

Gerry1

Jakubk wrote: »

if it upsets you that I break down the concerns I have you can feel free to use the ignore function of this website and you will no longer see my posts.

Jakubk wrote: »

If you have stalked my threads you will know I can't do direct debit so please stop TELLING me to do something I have explicitly said I DON'T want. If you can't provide any help, try moving on the the next thread.

Oh dear, if you just insult all the people who are merely offering suggestions trying to help you, you won't have much luck ! Anyone glancing at the index page can see immediately that you've started six very similar threads (as of course you are fully entitled to do). And as far as I am aware, you still haven't provided the relevant info (distribution area and annual kWh usage) that would enable forumites to drill down and find the best deal that is eluding you.

You've misunderstood the bit about standing charges, no-one is suggesting £200 is trivial, but it's a distraction because the cheapest deal overall isn't necessarily the one with no standing charges, it's not the Holy Grail. You're unlikely to get something for nothing (unless you have negligibly low consumption): the costs have to be met somehow and it will be by higher unit rates. Just search for the lowest cost when everything has been taken into account.

If you can't or don't want to set up a Variable DD that's fine, but it would save you money; the DD guarantee means that the bank would immediately reverse any withdrawal that broke the rules.

It's a bit like saying you don't like going to Lidl and queueing up to pay, you want to phone up and have it all delivered to your door, wait for the invoice to arrive and then pop a cheque in the post. Sure, you can get all that from Harrods, but don't expect Lidl prices !

Have you checked out Warm Home Discount and any benefits to which you are entitled. e.g. via Citizens Advice ? That's likely to be more productive than trying to find the perfect energy company and tariff at the end of the rainbow.

brewerdave

Houbara wrote: »

It is only the Tory government back in 2012 gave occupiers the option.
OP, you sound very sure you won t accept a smart meter.What will you do if next week the Government turn round and make them mandatory ? The suppliers would do that tomorrow if government butted out and kept out of their affairs.

Well one,-it ain't going to happen and two, the current smart meter rollout is such a mess that EVEN IF it was made mandatory, there aren't enuf SMETS2 meters or meter fitters available to get it done quickly EVEN assuming they sort out the SMETS1 adoption issues!!

macman

OP: just curious, but what bank are you using that does not offer a DD function?

[Deleted User]

brewerdave wrote: »

Well one,-it ain't going to happen and two, the current smart meter rollout is such a mess that EVEN IF it was made mandatory, there aren't enuf SMETS2 meters or meter fitters available to get it done quickly EVEN assuming they sort out the SMETS1 adoption issues!!

Fancy a little bet Brewerdave that the Government in power , Tory, Labour, even Lib Dem will once again stick their their unwanted noses in the Energy market and redact the Tory 2012 "suggestion " that smart meters should not be imposed by a mandatory order to accept one.
The smart meter roll out fails completely if its not mandatory and suppliers have invested too much now for it to fail. At the moment the suppliers are being forced into financial inducements to convince people to accept one.
We have people on here from Stopsmartmeters UK still pushing the anti smart agenda
.I always thought that they were just a bunch of oddballs but I m surprised what inroads they have made into convincing people to refuse one.
Every smart meter installed now, be it SMETS1 or SMETS2 will operate in smart switching eventually when the DCC finally gets its act together