Builders contract

symbiosis01

thanks doozergirl, shame you arnt closer or i would be asking you to quote

So, process of due diligence - what do you recommend please?

Thank you, and if i didnt have my concerns, i wouldn't be posting

snowcat75

phill99 wrote: »

No. Just No. No. No. No. No. No again.


Firstly, there are three rules to abide by in life
1) Never lend money you can't afford to lose
2) Never let a house to someone you won't evict and
3) Never employ someone you aren't willing to sack.


You must have someone at arms length. A neighbour isn't at arms length and the situation will be awkward if things go pear shaped.


If he is offering a day rate to project manage the job, then he is no more a project manager than I am the Chief Rabbi.


In terms of the 'contract' you need a contract that covers the whole project. That means that there is one contract to cover all trades - brickies, plasterers, carpenters etc. This means that there will be a lead contractor and all other trades sub-contract to him. This means that one person has overall responsibility for all materials, all trades, availability of labour, work programmes, quality control, resolution of disputes etc. What he is effectively doing by getting you to pay the other trades directly is to set up a number of direct contracts. This really is a recipe for disaster as when there is a problem, each trade will simply blame another trade.


Day rates are not an effective way to employ someone. He will simply string the job out and you will be £1250 a week worse off for each week that the job overruns. You must get a fixed price with a clear specification.


Do not go down this route as you will lose a lot of money and end up pulling your hair out.

Pretty much this, heed the advice given , If someone cant give you a price for standard work then walk away.... Your be 8 weeks in half the job finished and he'll still be charging you by the day...... or more likely his version of a day!

Doozergirl

Seek recommendations.

Treat him as a recommendation.

Talk through the job with people and, for me, establish whether you like them. When we're looking at who we'd like to work with, it's mainly about affability because these people are going to be in your house.

Are these separate trades recommended by him, or did you find them separately? I'm asking as I'll have comment to make on how these people may, or may not, work together as a team.

You want to speak to their previous clients and see their work. A personal recommendation does act as that if friends have recommended someone as you'll have seen what they do. If you haven't seen what they do - go and look, or at least make a couple of phone calls.

Really, you need to assess the level of risk you want to expose yourself to.

If you are employing a group of subcontractors and buying materials yourself, you are doing my job. That is absolutely fine, but you need to be around. Be aware that your base line will look cheaper and you should end up with a cheaper job than relying on one person to manage it all for you on a price, but you lay yourself open to the risk of things being more bumpy and you will have extra costs. You are the one responsible and the buck stops at you, regardless of other's mistakes. A day rate does not account for breakages or wasted time. I'm a little worried about this guy's experience as a PM, which is why I want you to dig a little deeper. Even asking the other contractors you've spoken to.

If he is a regular PM then I'd argue that he isn't running a business in the usual manner because it dilutes accountability and tax liabilities. If people cut the administrative corners, what else do they cut?

Maybe he's just dipping his toe in the water at running his own jobs; okay, just beware that this isn't going to be slick! I'd say can you agree a maximum number of weeks that you will pay for, but it's not likely to work. If he feels hard done by, he'll walk off having still been paid all the money he was entitled to.

Payment schedules are important . This guy, you just pay as you go, so that's simple, but you're not assessing payments against progress. If you take on one main contractor, or other trades are working on a price, that's an important point. How do you measure what is due against what they ask for?

In addition to PL insurance, we carry expensive Contract Works cover. Your home insurance will not cover the cost of work in progress (you need to tell them about the work too). If something horrid happens on site, all the work will be lost and you'll end up paying again if no one is insuring the cost of the works. It's not a legal requirement, but it's pretty sensible. If you are employing separate trades then each person paid is a contract and each person needs their own cover.

symbiosis01

Thanks again Doozergirl
Answers:
the separate trades were recommended by him bar the plumber (who we already know). The sparks is well known and has a good rep in the town, and the roofer comes across well and was also recommended by other builders we spoke to.
He just completed a similar conversion on his own place and ran it in much the the same way (so organised all the works himself and using the same people)
I will definitely dig deeper

Doozergirl

Okay, so you want to establish if these trades have worked with him (and therefore for someone else), or for him.

It is good if they know each other as they should work together okay, but I can't even tell you the stories of what has happened when one of our subbies takes on the others to do a job, as all hell seems to break loose. One usually falls out with the client, the others fall out with the other subbies .

I get the feeling that you're either a people/project manager or you're not.

Mistral001

Doozergirl wrote: »

In a word. No.

They come a handful of times a loft conversion, if that. They want to see the steels and that the insulation exists, then they'll have a look at the stairs, fire doors and smoke alarms. They'll check the right glass is in the windows. And that's about it. They'll expect you to provide the electrical certificate and they'll be on site for about 15 minutes, if that. There's a lot more work than just structural, there's an overall attention to detail and care for a project.

You cannot rely on Building Control to do all of your quality control. Besides, if it's wrong, it's already gone wrong hasn't it. And whose problem is that?

As Phill says, you've created multiple different contracts and you've purchased all of the materials, so if anything gets ruined and needs buying again, you're buying it.

This guy just turns up for £150 a day he's responsible for nothing.

I'm afraid you're deeply naive about this. You are the project manager, main contractor and client. Fine if that's what you're expecting and are going to be on site, but otherwise you seriously need to slow down here and start following some sort of process of due diligence.

I totally agree.

Building Control do not provide a warranty. Building Control cannot be held responsible for any purely economic loss as a result of their negligence. See following Murphy v Brentwood District Council ruling by the Law Lords in 1991:

https://www.lawteacher.net/cases/murphy-v-brentwood.php

The building contractor and any professional advisors such as architects, on the other hand, can be held responsible for purely economic loss as a result of their negligence.